SAMBO

[jjy5016]

Sounds like fun, John.

In my BJJ class, we have different aspect emphasized different nights, so you just seeing that leg choke is not unusual.

I attend 3 times per week. I like to have the recovery time (just hit 42). And he's wise about the waiting to spar/grapple. Too many folks rush in too quickly and get injured then don't come back. Take your time. Have a long view of it all. The other half of making folks wait a bit before sparring is to gauge them and give them feedback before letting them spar. Part of this is to protect the other students. A lot of newer folks who step into sparring/grappling see it as a competition rather than just training. They see a simple roll as a UFC championship. My teacher wants to make sure new people understand that and that the goal is to develop not inure your training partners, so he lets people spar after he has assessed them.

And remember that the most important thing to learn in ground work is to tap early and tap often. Accept being arm barred and choked. Just tap to avoid injury. Eventually you figure out either avoiding the positions or escape strategies.

-pete

Thanks for the heads up Pete.

So I guess once it goes to the ground I shouldn't:

Grab the guy by the hair and smash his face into the mat until he stops moving.

Stick a thumb in his eye.

Knee him to the groin.

Elbow to the throat.

Insert fingers under the floating ribs, grip and crank....etc.

But choking is allowed as long as it's not done with the hands, right?

Seriously though, I'm in it for the workout. No intention on going to the UFC.

John

[kreese]

Cheers to you, man, for trying something new. Look forward to hearing your insights on how your traditional training meshes with sambo.

BTW, I met the "uke" in that vid posted. Nice guy. I'm not sure if he's still around these parts, but if he is I can't wait to run into him so I can ask him about his sambo training!

[jjy5016]

Well, I went. Enjoyed the workout. Got winded, choked, grapevined, figure 4'd and thrown to the mat.

Great workout. Good fellas.

Have to get used to thinking of grappling instead of striking.

Going back tomorrow night.


small John

[grzegorz]

I have to agree with Pete about how it's good to have new guys wait around a bit.

We do this at my school and I didn't really think much of it but then I realized that it also helps to let everyong else know who the new guys are (especially in sambo where you don't have belt rankings). Because when I haven't rolled with someone and we begin to roll I always assume that they might be better than me no matter what belt they have, because I used to do it the other way and have guys would try to take advantage of my niceness.

The other night I went to check out a judo club and I rolled with some guys, one guy I just slammed and choked out quickly, then I found out from their coach that he was new, but I didn't know that because this was my first time there. I felt like a prick of afterwards, I wish someone would have told me I would have gone easy on him.

Just saying...

[grzegorz]

Thanks for the heads up Pete.

So I guess once it goes to the ground I shouldn't:

Grab the guy by the hair and smash his face into the mat until he stops moving.

Stick a thumb in his eye.

Knee him to the groin.

Elbow to the throat.

Insert fingers under the floating ribs, grip and crank....etc.

But choking is allowed as long as it's not done with the hands, right?

Seriously though, I'm in it for the workout. No intention on going to the UFC.

John

Remember those are all things they can do too and being that they've trained how to grapple on the ground chances are they'd be better at it than someone who hasn't.

This is actually where I think BJJ has one leg up on sambo. In BJJ it's position before submission which is why leg locks aren't as common. If there is a leg lock easily available they'll take it but usually BJJ guys (especially out of Carlson Gracie's camp) will first try to pass the guard, establish control and then look for a sub.

The reason being that once you establish control you can do whatever you'd like to do the other guy. But if you don't have a dominant position before striking then things could go either way.

[The_Tao]

Grzegorz,

I think it depends on where you train. I know that at NY Combat Sambo we train position before submission and the leg locks we use are after we achieve a position, go to lockflow.com and look at reilly bodycomb or youtube him he goes over the positions we use. IMO the main differences between Sambo and BJJ are: 1-We use throws to set up submissions 2- in Tournaments Sambo has no skilled division just weight classes which can be hell for newbies 3-Depending on what style of Sambo you are doing you may or may not really work on chokes ie sports sambo does not allow chokes 2- Sambo leg locks reap the legs to give us a position so that we can submit, where BJJ does not allow that in competitions 5- We learn Leg locks from jump, where most schools wont teach leg locks until you are a blue belt, some won't teach it until purple because it BJJ competition most leg locks are not allowed until the advanced divisions 6- if you are doing combat sambo you are learning how to strike from jump 7-The sambo thought process is all punches lead to throws which lead to submissions, in a strictly grappling sense my coach emphases that we need to be like mercury, fluid and loose get positions and submission but be aggressive like a shark because stillness means death, remember in a sambo tournament their no points for passing guard, mount etc etc you get points for throws, and 2 set of points depending on the competition for pins which can on come from north south, mount or side it get it once again depending on the rules for pin for 10 seconds then 30 but that is only once each and this depends on who is hosting the event. Once again these are just my opinions

we break up the class schedule for beginners and advance, so when we an advance student is in a beginners class we know not to go balls to the walls when we spar with them and if the guy spazz out then tap out and coach will let him know its ok to lose here and its ok to tap out because this is an ego free environment and everyone here is to learn.

[grzegorz]

Well let me start by saying I think both position over submission and ending things quickly are both valid.

In fact the Bahia style of BJJ tends to emphasize submissions more than the Rio De Jinero styles. Personally I think you have to take what works for you.

Saying that my point is as you mentioned in BJJ leglocks are not taught from the beginning because then people would just go to the leglocks rather than pass the guard. In fact in Koulikov's tapes he even says that sambo will catch up to BJJ in MMA once they figure out how to pass the guard.

My point being it's a different game. I think BJJ takes in consideration that sometimes the best thing is to just control the guy and then let them make a mistake. Of course sometimes in competition this can lead to a long boring match, but against someone who's never been on the ground it's not going to last very long where as in sambo you try to finish it as quickly as possible cutting through the chase which is always cool to see.

I know that even SamboSteve makes this distinction. Again both are valid and both can be criticized. I should say that in general I think sambo is the best for the streets betwenn BJJ, Judo and Sambo because is has the least dogma/rules and has a good balance between stand-up and ground.

[The_Tao]

Grzegorz,

Funny thing I've meet Koulikov but never watched the tapes, just not enough time in the day..haha. You are right the BJJ and Sambo are different games. Coach Stephen always say the rules and the environment from where it come from dictates the flavor of the art. and you are correct in saying both points are valid, you just have to do what works for you. Its all about a martial art mind set, in a BJJ tournament if you sit down and I don't engage then im stalling but in Sambo if you sit down then you are stalling, as you said both are valid and can be criticized. Damn Its been along time since I wrote this much on the forum. Felipe and everyone who keep the EF flame going during our dark time thank you for keeping things alive. Its nice to be able to take a couple years off from posting and come back and have intelligent conversations with out the BS...OK the occasional BS is fun.. I do miss the Sifu Z pics..those were classic.

[grzegorz]

Yeah you get a lot of good stuff on this board.

It must be really cool to train with Steve. If I were in NY that's where I'd be.