"I can use my taiji for fighting"

Discussion on the three big Chinese internals, Yiquan, Bajiquan, Piguazhang and other similar styles.

"I can use my taiji for fighting"

Postby DeusTrismegistus on Thu Jun 05, 2008 11:53 am

I have noticed a trend here. A lot of the posters say that they can and train to use their taiji for fighting. At the same time many of the posters complain about how rare and difficult it is to find a teacher who can teach the martial or who does teach it regularly.

So are we all just a lucky group of posters or is there a bunch of us who think we can fight with our taiji but are just fooling ourselves?
I contend that for a nation to try to tax itself into prosperity is like a man standing in a

bucket and trying to lift himself up by the handle. -- Winston Churchill
User avatar
DeusTrismegistus
Wuji
 
Posts: 3702
Joined: Wed May 14, 2008 5:55 am

Re: "I can use my taiji for fighting"

Postby Dmitri on Thu Jun 05, 2008 12:00 pm

Probably a little bit of both.
User avatar
Dmitri
Great Old One
 
Posts: 9736
Joined: Fri May 02, 2008 1:04 pm
Location: Atlanta, GA (USA)

Re: "I can use my taiji for fighting"

Postby Jeice on Thu Jun 05, 2008 12:04 pm

It also depends on what everyone's definition of "fighting" is.
Jeice
Anjing
 
Posts: 194
Joined: Tue May 13, 2008 4:03 pm

Re: "I can use my taiji for fighting"

Postby JuanM on Thu Jun 05, 2008 12:19 pm

I think that there are more teachers out there that teach the fighting aspects of Taiji than we think. They may not be as easy to find as the Taiji for health folks but they are out there.
JuanM
Great Old One
 
Posts: 53
Joined: Tue May 13, 2008 11:57 am

Re: "I can use my taiji for fighting"

Postby Darth Rock&Roll on Thu Jun 05, 2008 12:41 pm

definition of fighting?

um, physical conflict, usually resulting in the end of said conflict by the rising of a victor and the defeat of the loser.

Have you physically defeated an opponent using your tai chi? Have you been defeated in a conflict using your taichi.

neither of those disqualifies anyone from saying they can or cannot fight with their tai chi.

If you don't fight, you can't claim you know how to based on practice of form, understanding of theory etc etc. The act itself is 99% of the result. NOt the other way round. It doesn't matter if you win or lose, it's that you have played the game.

If you haven't, you simply haven't. no shame there, it's just not your thing.
Coconuts. Bananas. Mangos. Rice. Beans. Water. It's good.
User avatar
Darth Rock&Roll
Great Old One
 
Posts: 7054
Joined: Tue May 13, 2008 4:42 am
Location: Canada

Re: "I can use my taiji for fighting"

Postby I am... on Thu Jun 05, 2008 12:57 pm

To me, fighting involves striking or above levels of contact, or the possibility of being struck, stabbed, shot, etc. If you are both wrestling, grappling, pushing, or whatever, but not risking getting hit, cut, or worse, then to me it is dishonest to imply it was a fight. I know this view is not shared by quite a few people out there however.

That being said, if you were to subdue an attacker that is trying to strike, stab, shoot, etc. you with grappling, pushing, or what have you, that in my view is a fight. The old saying (at least in my school) "everyone has a plan until they get punched in the face" has a certain truth to it.
http://www.appliedcombat.com

"Once you have firmly decided that you face certain death, overwhelming thoughts of fear will be exhausted in your mind..."
-Hirayama Shiryu-
User avatar
I am...
Wuji
 
Posts: 901
Joined: Tue May 13, 2008 10:58 am
Location: Seattle, WA

Re: "I can use my taiji for fighting"

Postby meeks on Thu Jun 05, 2008 1:14 pm

about 99% of the taiji guys I know are total masters of the game "I made you move your foot" (push hands). Some of them even have a couple of decent locks or takedowns, but could never use it in a real situation where they weren't being 'fed' an easy attack from a student or classmate.

then there's the other 1% I've met that have some serious power or skill. I can count them on 1 hand.

fwiw, Mo Ling had some serious skill. I'm not sure whether he was concerned with training to use it instinctively, but having met him in Beijing a couple of times and spent time with him, discussing internal aspects and feeling his skill, he has my respect.
"The power of Christ compels you!" *spank*
now with ADDED SMOOTHOSITY! ;D
User avatar
meeks
Administrator
 
Posts: 3646
Joined: Fri May 02, 2008 12:27 pm
Location: Great Lakes, IL

Re: "I can use my taiji for fighting"

Postby cerebus on Thu Jun 05, 2008 2:05 pm

Heh, heh. And Mo loves joint locks and throws. And I don't mean "joint locks" and "throws" separately here. I mean, he likes to do these chin-na throws that make it impossible to land in a non-injurious way. Mean stuff...
"Fool, the Devil drives!"
User avatar
cerebus
Great Old One
 
Posts: 4411
Joined: Tue May 13, 2008 10:54 am
Location: Charlottesville, VA

Re: "I can use my taiji for fighting"

Postby TaoJoannes on Thu Jun 05, 2008 2:22 pm

How about "I know I can fight" and "I do taiji" equalling "I'm figuring out how this taiji stuff fits into the fight game"
oh qué una tela enredada que tejemos cuando primero practicamos para engañar
User avatar
TaoJoannes
Wuji
 
Posts: 875
Joined: Tue May 13, 2008 3:40 am
Location: Cocoa Beach, Fla

Re: "I can use my taiji for fighting"

Postby Bao on Thu Jun 05, 2008 2:57 pm

Sparring is what many practitioner need much more of. We call sparring "reality check". Sparring is not as close to real fight as one would wish, but most people who only practice slow cooperative PH drills might get some wake up call from it.

And I am very much against people's very strong pictures of how taiji should look like if used in a real fight. Taijiquan is filled with many tools you can use in many different ways.

BTW, what does "I know I can fight" mean? You can never know about the outcome of a fight. Anything can and will happen. Having a to strong belief that you can fight is not always a good thing.
Thoughts on Tai Chi (My Tai Chi blog)
- Storms make oaks take deeper root. -George Herbert
- To affect the quality of the day, is the highest of all arts! -Walden Thoreau
Bao
Great Old One
 
Posts: 9007
Joined: Tue May 13, 2008 12:46 pm
Location: High up north

Re: "I can use my taiji for fighting"

Postby Walter Joyce on Thu Jun 05, 2008 3:01 pm

I have to admit taiji has improved my fighting, but it wasn't and still isn't my first art.

As I have said numerous times, I have met taiji people who could fight.

I'm just not fond of people who go to a hot dog stand and say hot dogs suck, there is really no such thing as hot dogs, hot dogs really should become hamburgers, but don't mind me, I'm just expressing my opinion. Go ahead, keep eating your hot dog, but it really does suck.

8-)
Last edited by Walter Joyce on Thu Jun 05, 2008 3:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
The more one sweats during times of peace the less one bleeds during times of war.

Ideology offers human beings the illusion of dignity and morals while making it easier to part with them.
Walter Joyce
Great Old One
 
Posts: 634
Joined: Tue May 13, 2008 5:33 am
Location: Boston, Massachusetts

Re: "I can use my taiji for fighting"

Postby TaoJoannes on Thu Jun 05, 2008 3:04 pm

Bao wrote:BTW, what does "I know I can fight" mean? You can never know about the outcome of a fight. Anything can and will happen. Having a to strong belief that you can fight is not always a good thing.


It means that, at various times in my illustrious existence, fools have chosen to step, and been subsequently beat down.

Of course, in all fairness, I've taken my share of beatings.

I know I can fight means precisely that, if it comes time to scrap, I'm ready to scrap. In defense of innocent maidens and the like, of course, and I'll avoid it whenever possible, but it's not a complicated statement to understand.
oh qué una tela enredada que tejemos cuando primero practicamos para engañar
User avatar
TaoJoannes
Wuji
 
Posts: 875
Joined: Tue May 13, 2008 3:40 am
Location: Cocoa Beach, Fla

Re: "I can use my taiji for fighting"

Postby C.J.Wang on Thu Jun 05, 2008 3:06 pm

I agree with Meek. Even the 1% Taiji fighters I've run into are cross-trainer who either dabble or orginally trained in other CMA systems.
C.J.Wang
Wuji
 
Posts: 996
Joined: Wed May 14, 2008 7:21 am

Re: "I can use my taiji for fighting"

Postby sdf on Thu Jun 05, 2008 3:35 pm

In my opinion taijiquan is high level of fighting, so I'm not sure that everyone is able to achieve such level; however, no doubt everyone can get own benefit from practicing taijiquan
sdf
Santi
 
Posts: 43
Joined: Tue May 13, 2008 10:26 am

Re: "I can use my taiji for fighting"

Postby kenneth delves on Thu Jun 05, 2008 5:05 pm

Some while ago I posted a friend's video[on the other forum] which had the CMC TCC done at regular and fast speed showing how it would be used for fighting. He is a training partner, his stuff is deadly[as a law officer he has used it often in 'real' situations]. he is a 25 year veteran of the IMA. The reaction: one from a comparitive beginner saying it shouldnt be done that way, another from a self appointed judge of videos who has never posted his experience but feels he knows everything saying all the postures etc were wrong. I was tempted to invite them to NY to try out my friend and have reality check but why bother, needlessto say I wont be posting any more videos
User avatar
kenneth delves
Great Old One
 
Posts: 115
Joined: Tue May 13, 2008 8:23 pm
Location: BROOKYN, NEW YORK

Next

Return to Xingyiquan - Baguazhang - Taijiquan

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 24 guests