The source of Martial Arts is the same......

[Dr.Rob]

Dolphins and sharks look the same, both swim, eat other animals, did they evolve from the same thing? Go back far enough and yes, probably, but that going pretty far back. Chances are some "martial arts" independantly evolved in isolation from each other, others maybe not.

ah..bit of an issue the dolphin is a mammal the shark is not its a fish. Oh yeah the sharks have been around since prehistoric age. Dolphins a heck of lot later...just saying

[johnwang]

training methods and practitioners that have developed by virtue of them.

What's the difference between

- long fist and Baji? Baji has better Fajin training method than LF has.
- LF and prey mantis? PM has better speed training method than LF has.

The beauty of the LF system is, it contains all the finish moves that you will need in combat. Jab, hook, upper cut, hammer fist, back fist, front kick, side kick, round house kick, crescent kick, jumping kicks, ...

If you cross train LF, Baji, and PM, you can use Baji Fajin training method to train your LF. You can also use PM speed training method to train your LF. Your LF is no longer the same LF as you had before. It has been envolved. After a period of time, you won't be able to distinguish whether you are training LF, Baji, or PM. You have just found the right way to train - maximum Fajin, maximun speed, complete finish moves.

After you have integrated styles together, the future generation won't be able to tell the difference between LF, Baji, and PM. The world will be so harmony and peaceful. Nobody will ever say that "You just pretend that you are one of us, but you are not."

[Jonny]

Nah, I don't think so. I think a lot of people like to say "we are all the same" or "we are all brothers". I think they like to say this so that they can have a chance at being seen in the same light as someone who really defines the genre.

A practitioner will look immediately for what is different and how to attack that weakness. A practitioner will recognize how not the same he is from teh opponent by his weakness or by his strength.
yes a kick is a kick a punch s a punch etc etc.

But my kicks are hard because of the method I was taught with, My punches are hard because of the methods i use to develop them.

My methods did not come from your source of methods and yours don't come from mine.

so it ain't all the same, quite a lot of it is bullshit and the methods while maybe useful aren't employed by the practitioners.

so having access to a method and actually using that method to develop yourself as a fighter and ma practitioner are two different things.
armchair martial analysts and actual martial artists should never ever be placed in the same context. They are two entirely different types of people pursuing two entirely different goals.

Your kungfu is NOT my kungfu.

Your correct. A straight vertical wing chun blast is not the same as a long fist punch.

But all goals are the same: to give you the ability to move and control over your body. The methods are just different.
Hence the OP stating alot of similarities between styles.
Natural selection and survival forced us to find the most efficient ways to utilize the body for self defense.

[C.J.Wang]

The source of all martial arts or fighting practices around the world, to me, is self-perservation.

[BonesCom]

Dolphins and sharks look the same, both swim, eat other animals, did they evolve from the same thing? Go back far enough and yes, probably, but that going pretty far back. Chances are some "martial arts" independantly evolved in isolation from each other, others maybe not.

ah..bit of an issue the dolphin is a mammal the shark is not its a fish. Oh yeah the sharks have been around since prehistoric age. Dolphins a heck of lot later...just saying

Just trying to say just because something looks like something else does not necessarily mean they have the same root. Also, are we talking specific techniques or guiding priciples. You may have different techniques being guided by the same principle or what looks like the same techniques guided by quite different principles.

If any CMA style that evolved in isolation, that style will not be worthwhile to learn. If one can only use his style to beat up his classmates and not people from other styles then his style won't mean much.

Good call John

In terms of cross-training... I don't. Now before you all yell at me, the reasons are:
1. I'm new. I would like to get my head around what I'm learning before I expand my repertoire, also I have been explicitly told not to cross train for the moment since the principles (in terms of shenfa) behind what I'm learning (dai style) are unique and I need to solidfy that before anything else, cross-training, I'm told, might confuse me

2. Also I'm a believer in learning the depth of material within a system. It seems to me that a lot of the styles we train in are rather complete systems, most will have techniques/principles etc... to deal with most situations, it may be that they just take time to develop the skills to do so (tai chi people may know what I mean)

3. And probably the main reason is... I don't have time. As it is I spend too much time training the small number of basics I have to train (mainly surrounding the aforementioned shenfa), and I just want to learn something properly, from somebody that can teach me properly, AND no-one is beating me up on a regular basis so I don't have a burning need to have to defend myself.

The question is....will the points brought up in this thread lead us to think a little more objectively and "bigger picture" about combat training, and to be a little less caught up in the "complete" system/lineage queen nonsense?

Chris I think this may ultimately depend on WHY you are learning a martial art. At the end of the day I don't need to know how to fight, I have managed 29 yrs without ever having a hand raised against me. I could argue that my mouth and leg fu will beat you kung fu anyday This for me is the pinnacle of natural selection (obviously humans are the highest form of life ) I don't need to be big or strong or even a good fighter I have the power to avoid the confrontation altogether because my brain is so massive and I can use it to beat you.

Maybe this is another thread though: Why learn a martial art nowadays What's the need? Sorry to thread-jack too much caffeine today