Systema's Ballistic Striking

[grzegorz]

Anyone familiar with this?



A bit of an explanation.



Here's a clip with someone who looks strangely like me demoing and explaining how this striking is different.



I see some interesting stuff happening here, I'm curious if anyone is familiar with this system and what makes it unique.

[Bhassler]

There are a few Systema guys who regularly post here and the art itself has be discussed ad nauseum on this board over the past several years. You might have better luck if you try asking very specific questions instead of about the system as a whole.

[grzegorz]

I am not asking about the system as a whole.

[RobP2]

Anyone familiar with this?

I see some interesting stuff happening here, I'm curious if anyone is familiar with this system and what makes it unique.

Yes.

What makes it unique? I don't know, there are differences from CIMA and a few similarities. You have to appraoch it as awhole as it is a whole approach, if you see what I mean. "Ballistic striking" is just a marketing term

There are articles and info at:

http://www.systemauk.com

http://russianmartialart.com

cheers
Rob

[Bhassler]

...I'm curious if anyone is familiar with this system and what makes it unique.

This would sound like you're asking about the system as a whole. Just sayin'.

[JusticeZero]

Yeah, have to agree, that's a question that I interpret as "restate the basic FAQ yet again, without request for any particular information". If I get asked that, I give an answer so basic as to be banal and easily researched, since there's nothing to go on for what deeper info might be wanted.

[Josh Lerner]

What I just noticed about these videos, and the Systema videos in general, is that when they demonstrate the Systema punch, they change where their body is in relation to the target. It occurs in all three videos above, and in most of the other ones I remember seeing of Vlad, Mikhail, etc. The "normal" punches are always delivered so that at the moment of impact, the shoulders are roughly square to the target (or parallel to the target), and you can see alot of the force being dissipated back into the shoulder girdle. The Systema punches in these kinds of demos are always demonstrated with the puncher standing at roughly 90 degrees to the target, so that the punch comes across their chest. The scapula isn't absorbing any force that way, so the shoulder girdle is much more stable. The elbows are always higher than the wrist, angling the force of the punch slightly down even in "straight" punches, which allows the forearm flexors to stabilize the wrist more.

The question then becomes - if you have a "normal" martial artist strike someone in that way (i.e. stand 90 degrees to the target, strike across the chest by swinging the arm with the elbow higher than the wrist), without any other Systema training in relaxation, breathing, etc, are you going to get a similar effect? Has anyone tried this?

Josh

[snafu]

Josh, is that really all that interesting a question, though? There are going to be specific mechanics of movement that are inherently more effective than others for certain things, and isn't learning that part of the bag of tricks to strike effectively? Even if you don't put much thought into how you strike beyond form, better striking form will still make you strike better. You don't want to be practically limited from what positions you are able to strike, but some positions are always going to be better than others. Likewise, there are qualities underlying those forms of movement, that are extremely difficult to manifest without training them - like relaxation, coordination, etc. - that will make striking in any way more effective, but will be still be far more effectively if putting them into sound movement mechanics - and at the same time those qualities aren't limited to specific ways of striking.

Some of the basic striking mechanics I learned spent a lot of emphasis on getting the shoulders lined up with the target, and this is just an extension of the entire line of extension of the whole body, allowing it to transfer. There wasn't a huge deal made out of it; that's just one mechanical trick about how to strike effectively and the most basic level of it. Then I get to study within that framework, how best to get an impulse into my body to get it moving into the target, how best to allow the body to accelerate with that impulse, and how best to get that force solidly into the target on impact without letting it bleed out or bounce off. It's all part of the entire package of striking - and all that has nothing to do with the actual form of the strike itself. Striking just ain't something in your bag of tricks... it is the entire bag, the entire study in and of itself.

[grzegorz]

...I'm curious if anyone is familiar with this system and what makes it unique.

This would sound like you're asking about the system as a whole. Just sayin'.

No problem, I meant the Ballistic striking system. I've known about Systema for a long time. I understand their overall method and approach but this is the first I've seen of Val's striking method.

I'm curious about it because years ago I when I did Bagua I was doing roushou with someone who got upset because I was using just the weight of my arms to hit him and he complained that I was whacking him hard, but for me it felt like I was swatting flies.

At the time, BKF, showed me how to do the "no-inch" punch. Which is cool but I see two problems with these things. One no one is going to stand there and let you get a clean shot (as in the demo) and the second problem is that although you may be able to get some decent power with a strike like this it's usually going to take a combination of fast punches followed-up by a KO which makes speed more important than power in my mind anyway.

But I'm still open-minded about other approaches and other things. The way I see it this is a little bit like pitching in baseball and soft ball. In baseball you can get a good fast pitch but most pitchers only have so many good years because the movement is unnatural. Where as in softball's underhanded pitch you might not get as much speed but you can pitch like that forever without ever having to worry about injuries.

I'm going to try to get a hold of the DVD and find out more.

[RobP2]

It isn't Val's striking method, it's systema Like I mentioned before the term is just a marketing thing. that's not to say it isn't good information

cheers

Rob

[Darth Rock&Roll]

Major point of contention is the verbiage.

"ballistic" implies a projectile travelling in an arc to it's target.

Nothing on your body is ballistic because none of your body has a projectile quality.

You can have balllistic spitting, you can have ballistic shitting (if you got a super chute!)

but you cannot ballistically punch and that is a marketing plop plain and simple.

having said that. if you keep the arms in and use the skeletal structure to dictate the launching point while providing a stable and solid skeletal structure, then you will have effective punching. If you let the individual joints dictate the motion, your punches will be weak.

If you are whole body punching, you will launch some good ones.

In the vid with the wall bag, that in and of itself is not a good training method. steel is a shitty surface to strike at, it puts all the force back into because there is no where else for it to go. Also, a little airbag is a piece of shit and you can't put optimal force into that setup, so, to be blunt, the whole video is nonsense and has no value.

systema is just one more system of engaging the body in combat learning. Like any martial art, it requires the will to do.

Any martial art practiced by a person who is unwilling to use it martially is useless because it is not mindfully trained. Not saying this about systema, just saying it in general.

[Bhassler]

Any martial art practiced by a person who is unwilling to use it martially is useless because it is not mindfully trained.

It's off the topic, but this is only true if you narrowly define a martial art as strictly for fighting and serving no other purpose whatsoever.

[Wanderingdragon]

Any martial art practiced by a person who is unwilling to use it martially is useless because it is not mindfully trained.

It's off the topic, but this is only true if you narrowly define a martial art as strictly for fighting and serving no other purpose whatsoever.

Not off tyopic at all in context of the statement it speaks to, as far as ballistic striking , one must be aware of the arc of power generated by proper machanics, these are the circles we speak of in CMA Internal Or External.

[DeusTrismegistus]

The striking method is neat. The body angles are fascinating. However to me it looks like it is primarily about what I refer to as "letting go of the strike". They have really learned how to throw those strikes like an arrow in flight, the full momentum being transfered to the target.

[Bhassler]

Any martial art practiced by a person who is unwilling to use it martially is useless because it is not mindfully trained.

It's off the topic, but this is only true if you narrowly define a martial art as strictly for fighting and serving no other purpose whatsoever.

Not off tyopic at all in context of the statement it speaks to, as far as ballistic striking , one must be aware of the arc of power generated by proper machanics, these are the circles we speak of in CMA Internal Or External.

Those arcs don't in and of themselves necessitate an intent towards fighting.