Systema's Ballistic Striking

[DeusTrismegistus]

wow 3 year old resurrection. That must have been a true rez spell.

[gzregorz]

Are they the clips where he rolls in the "systems" way, all flowy with a compliant opponent, then rolls with mma/bjj guys and just looks like "normal" mma./bjj?

I don't know anything about systema so I don't want to get involved in a debate. But it seems to me that in any martial art you're practicing the ideal scenario. In bgz you practice how to step out of the way of your opponent and attack from the back, yet in reality this would be very hard to do against someone who is fast and trained. Unfortunately I think in the West a lot of people are not aware how hard this actually is. Yet the bgz people I met in China told me that is just one foot technique and that there are many others that don't involve circle walking. When I sparred with them they didn't even try to use this stepping until the opportunity arised. My point is I believe in systema it is the same, that you're not always going to move that loose and relaxed way only when it is necessary. In judo I often make my arm limp like a noodle and when they try to slap my arm away I just rotate at the elbow and grab them, it works everytime. Also like judo a lot of the stuff doesn't look like something you would do in a street fight yet if you ever go up against a good judo player as soon as they grab you they send you flying and there's nothing you can do to stop it, all they need is that one split second opportunity.

[Bao]

meh...i guess those punches work...against a non-resisting opponent just standing waiting for a systema guy to punch him in the stomach. LOL
love to see the systema guys in some sanctioned events or even live sparring .they wont have the chance and angles to get off one of those ballistic strikes.

All IMA strives to relax the strike into the surface. The punch shown is not the least different from what practitioners from XYQ or TJQ do. The principles are exactly the same. The only difference is the name Systema use and that they don't mystify simple physics with qi and intent nonsense.

The vid only shows one example of angles that could be used and only one single technique using certain principles. You can use exactly the same principles downwards (piquan) straight forward (beng) sideways (heng), explode upwards (pao) and use a twisting motion to drive it forward (zuan) etc etc

[Ralteria]

If your training up correctly I don't think it's necessarily too hard to accomplish. Obviously when the chips are on the line, what comes out comes out, but in training up to that point the idea is to launch and then settle in, at least in my limited experience and from my POV.

If your empty and actually neutralizing hits as they come in, your frame should be auto loading for this type of strike, so really all it takes is an opening. I'm not talking about any PH tangling crap either, all it takes is a second from a quick parry or two and then you launch from the built up surface tension. Look at how the breathing is coordinated with the body method IMA...it's built that way on purpose.

However, I will say that what I've seen in Systema, those guys actually might be able to launch quicker just because they don't seem to be rotating as much from the lower body as CMA guy might. Distance to target and all that jazz. Without the lower body addition you can get the explosiveness but I'm not sure how much weight you could add to it. Speed vs Power...depends on the situation and what you need at the time.

Hrmmm...ideas to play with.

Say Rob...how does Systema usually set up a strike like that?

[Ian]

Are they the clips where he rolls in the "systems" way, all flowy with a compliant opponent, then rolls with mma/bjj guys and just looks like "normal" mma.
/bjj?

I think if your goal is to steamroll your opponent in the ring, to protect your woman, or to go home safe to your family, you don't really care what it "looks like".

The people who care are mostly CMA guys (and I'm not lumping you into this category, because I know you deal with enough "that doesn't look like taiji" comments) who want everything to look like their particular lineage's version of a set of stylized movements.

[RobP2]

However, I will say that what I've seen in Systema, those guys actually might be able to launch quicker just because they don't seem to be rotating as much from the lower body as CMA guy might. Distance to target and all that jazz. Without the lower body addition you can get the explosiveness but I'm not sure how much weight you could add to it. Speed vs Power...depends on the situation and what you need at the time.

Hrmmm...ideas to play with.

Say Rob...how does Systema usually set up a strike like that?

I'm hoping to shoot a video blog today, following on from the last one, that deals with this

http://rumsoakedfist.org/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=18533

cheers

[Sprint]

Some thoughts...

"So, according to elementary sports biomechanics, the foundation for efficient movement is posture"

"Three Pillars of Systema" (namely, breathing, structure and movement).............Regarding movement..... each one of our combat skills (evasions, deflections, strikes, kicks, throws, takedowns, joint manipulations, submissions, immobilizations etc) is executed through movement, then movement obviously equals ability...............which helps us view Russian Martial Art not as a set number of comprehensive, start-to-finish, martial arts techniques that someone learns in order to “graduate”, but rather as a training method to make one’s body dexterous, “clever” enough to solve the motor problems of hand-to-hand combat."

[RobP2]

Here's the follow up blog post, point of contact in respect of close-in striking. Also some thoughts on sparring and compliance. This is a method of Systema striking rather than the method. There's a lot of other things involved but there is only so much you can put in a clip at a time...

[liokault]

Here's the follow up blog post, point of contact in respect of close-in striking. Also some thoughts on sparring and compliance. This is a method of Systema striking rather than the method. There's a lot of other things involved but there is only so much you can put in a clip at a time...

Rob, some good stuff in there, but specifically on your 'a method' of systema striking, you say its not something that you can use when sparring (I might start a thread on what the term sparring actually encompasses), isn’t that the same as saying "it only works on people who aren’t expecting it and aren’t in anyway defending themselves"? If so, are all of the criticisms (i.e its not going to work if the other person takes even basic measures) applicable?

[RobP2]

Ta I think it's down to the definition of sparring, I was thinking of the kind of glove up and jab around type of work. It's not really appropriate for that situation, some of the other type of work is. It's designed more for cutting short a committed attack, the other person shouldn't have a chance to respond to it when done correctly.

I guess that sparring in general is about a prolonged experience to develop certain things. Most times you want to keep a flow going?

[wiesiek]

.."Also like judo a lot of the stuff doesn't look like something you would do in a street fight yet if you ever go up against a good judo player as soon as they grab you they send you flying and there's nothing you can do to stop it, all they need is that one split second opportunity..."

excellent point Grześ,
you can use even most "exotic" move successfully when that one split second opportunity arise and you`re able to see/catch it

[gzregorz]

Thanks, I think there's a lot to said about expecting force on force only to find that there is no resistance there.

[Ralteria]

"Etheric field"

Good stuff man. While obviously not super indepth that vid did a good job of making a window of how you guys get form point A to B, which is cool. The positioning stuff i see looks really natural, stuff that you can use easily off the cuff from standing/walking.