Functional abstraction of martial applications

[johnwang]

it is usually done with a single chinese character according to each style.

The 1st principle of the Zimen style is 殘 (Can) - destroy, ruin, injury, cruel, savage, incomplete, disabled, ... You can map almost all the CMA moves from this principle. To me, it's just "too abstract" to have any true meaning. Today I still don't know what I have learned from that principle.

[SPJ]

Yes. sometimes they are too "abstracted".

In Qi style 5 element tong bei, there are 5 characters.

Leng 冷 : I just relate this to be "sudden" or "surprised".

Tan 弹 : bouncy with hands and feet.

Cui 脆 : crispy for each move and step.

Kuai 快 : fast and faster, your first move is hurried by your second move, and then by the third move etc

Ying 硬 : when the opportunity is there, you finish it as hard as you can be.

these are abstractions. but they pointed to some requirements of tong bei fighting methods.

which mean each move should have all of the above characteristics or properties.

yes, one may also say which move or which style does not.

but at least, we would pay attention to these characteristics when we practice Tong Bei.

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[D_Glenn]

The 1st principle of the Zimen style is 殘 (Can) - destroy, ruin, injury, cruel, savage, incomplete, disabled, ... You can map almost all the CMA moves from this principle. To me, it's just "too abstract" to have any true meaning. Today I still don't know what I have learned from that principle.

In bagua we have the principle character of 狠 hěn - ruthless; relentless; suppress (one's feelings); harden (the heart); firm; resolute. "If you are kind to your enemy, you are being cruel to yourself." I think it's a good first principle because if you have any reservations about hurting someone who is trying to hurt yourself then you're in the wrong game, why bother learning anything beyond that.

[D_Glenn]

Yes. sometimes they are too "abstracted".

In Qi style 5 element tong bei, there are 5 characters.

Leng 冷 : I just relate this to be "sudden" or "surprised".

Tan 弹 : bouncy with hands and feet.

Cui 脆 : crispy for each move and step.

Kuai 快 : fast and faster, your first move is hurried by your second move, and then by the third move etc

Ying 硬 : when the opportunity is there, you finish it as hard as you can be.

these are abstractions. but they pointed to some requirements of tong bei fighting methods.

which mean each move should have all of the above characteristics or properties.

yes, one may also say which move or which style does not.

but at least, we would pay attention to these characteristics when we practice Tong Bei.

--

Yin style bagua is known for being: Leng 冷, Cui 脆, and Kuai 快

Cold is it comes sudden with no warning, or small movements before. In terms of training its being able to strike from where the hands are and in fali the body/spine doesn't need to move before it begins.

Crisp - the movement is clean and the force travels smoothly from root to tip.

If those two are correct then one can start developing and working on making the movements increase speed. In order to be fast a movement first has to be able to be cold and crisp.



Also 弹 dan should be like a bullet or explosive, and 硬 ying is - hard / stiff / strong / firm, which makes me think that tongbei's are also describing training progression: first the movement should be cold, then like a bullet being shot, then if it follows its path it can be fast, when it hits then it can be hard.

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[D_Glenn]

More offtopic in an apparently dead thread: Pertaining to the above- this is from one of bagua's 48 songs:

人说冷弹快硬脆，我说冷弹是一般。脆硬细分无二致

Ren shou leng dan kuai ying cui, wo shou leng dan shi yi ban, Cui ying xi fen wu er zhi.

People talk about 'cold' (leng), 'explosive' (dan), 'fast' (kuai), 'solid' (ying), and 'crisp' (cui) power, I say that 'cold' and 'explosive' are the same.
There is just a small difference between the 'solid' and 'crisp' power.

So that is why bagua only uses the expression "leng, cui, kuai"


fwiw


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[everything]

I think this is why hard core gymnasts who started at 3 years of age can later perform very well in any athletic endeavor.

that makes me wonder what is the best possible abstraction to practice for general preparedness. gymnastics certainly seems like a great candidate. my 4 year old wants to take it up and i really hope he sticks with it. but i wonder what else rivals this background.

[wiesiek]

nothing,

in good dojo you have to spend year or two without wearing the gi, just pure body conitioning.
You have to know u own body abilitys 1st.!