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[cdobe]

John, do you know who the person with the hat is in the two pictures on the left ? Especially in the first picture he looks suspiciously like Wu Jianquan.

TIA
CD

[bailewen]

Cool. I'd been ignoring this thread for a bit because the initial topic seemed a bit obtuse to me but now that it's become a topic about kicks, haven't talked about that in a while.

On high kicks a couple points are being argued.

Leaning back - I can see both ways and sometimes lean and sometimes not. For the most part I just don't kick high. As to the arguments, I'm sort of with H20...sort of. I really don't think the lean allows you to be run down. For one, round kicks don't really blend well with what I do these days but even in Muay Thai (when I trained it), pretty much like in the pic H20 posted. The only difference is that in a perfect world he'd have his rear hand (right side) by his left side cheek because (in a perfect world again) the defender should be using only one arm to block and using the other to punch him in the face. . . .in a perfect world.

If you use a kick to set up a punch or throw, you will need to lean forward in order to achieve your next goal. in this case, your kick is no difference from just "step in".

I disagree and can provide examples from both bagua and hung gar. Both involve countering a punch with a kick. In Hung Gar's Gong Ji (工字伏虎拳) there is a lean forward and grab--->lean back and kick where you are grabbing the persons lead arm or even punching arm and then leaning back to pull him into your side kick. There are bagua moves I have learned that are similar except that you use both hands to control his lead arm, one at wrist and one at elbow. Lean back and front kick while you pull back on the arm. Same principle and I have pulled it off sparring at least once on a jab that was a little lazy. Sifu warned me not to use that move in sparring because of the danger to the elbow. You can "crack" his elbow with that grab.

Isn't kickingthe opponent's head like punching his foot . . . statistically a risky move for most of us?

I think this is more of a truism than a truth. It's just a sarcastic way of saying that high kicks are silly. (which they are definately not) When you punch the foot you place your head right next to his knees and expose your spine to both his hands. *shudder*

Lastly, although I have said I sort of feel that leaning to get the height is fine, it's still not as good as staying upright, not by a longshot...more more importantly, having the ability to stay upright. That's why I have been working so hard on this stretch: http://picasaweb.google.com/Bajibomber/ ... 0638242530

I don't actually stretch like that. I stand in a doorway and bring the leg up. The door frame keeps my back straight and really pushes the stretch. The second stage is to get the hip turned over while in that doorway so I can get the same range with a side kick stretch rather than just the front or heel kick. My style doesn't officially even include any high kicks. It's opposed on principle...but why limit yourself. Last year I met a guy who could kick faster and with more agility than most people could punch. He could change his kicks trajectory mid flight and he had incredible power to boot. He's the guy who got me started on the doorway stretch. Sparred with him and I swear to god i could not get past his lead leg. I think I made him bring his hands up maybe once or twice. He just didn't need to. His lead leg was just that agile

[johnwang]

John, do you know who the person with the hat is in the two pictures on the left ? Especially in the first picture he looks suspiciously like Wu Jianquan.

TIA
CD

Don't know. May be somebody else can tell.

lean back and kick where you are grabbing the persons lead arm...

You are talking about using your kick for real (pull your opponent into your kick) vs. using your kick for set up.

[H2O]

This is turning into a good thread.

[johnwang]

and if the kicker misses, or they avoid the kick, then they are now in close against an opponent who has one foot in the air. If everything works out well, yours is a great strategy. It's a bit riskier than my preference though, but hopefully good training would lower that risk.

If your opponent punch at you, he must expose his chest, stomach, and front leg for your kick. It's a such big area that's hard to miss. Even if you may miss, you can still hop back (by using cover step - move your kicking leg over and behind your standing leg, then jump with your standing leg) to regain the distance between you and your opponent. Since you will need a solid body structure to support you kicking leg (just like the long pole that can pierce through the bear body in "The Edge" movie), you cannot lean back but lean forward instead.

[bailewen]

You are talking about using your kick for real (pull your opponent into your kick) vs. using your kick for set up.

That's true but I think that if you can use your kick for real in that way, you will still have his arm and can still through if you want. That kind of kick can be enough though. You don't only pull him into your kick, by pulling on his arm, you open up his ribs so he has not "iron shirt" to use.

Since you will need a solid body structure to support you kicking leg (just like the long pole that can pierce through the bear body in "The Edge" movie), you cannot lean back but lean forward instead.

I thought some more about this. If he is really trying to run you down, then maybe yes, you do need to lean forward. I remember one drill we did in Kenpo where your partner would hold the kicking pad and his job was just to run you down. Your job was to try and stop his charge with a kick. You had to really plant hard because he was running towards you instead of just holding the pad. Sometimes you got bounced back a bit and you did sort of hop to get your footing again.

[DeusTrismegistus]

One of the most common problems I see with people is that they are not rooted enough when they kick. When I spar people that do that I can simply push forward through their kick and knock them back. If you are properly rooted you should be able to stop a person who is at least 200 lbs and moving forward at a decent pace in their tracks.

[johnwang]

The problem is this kind of "rooting" ability cannot be obtained through ZZ only. It's better to train by asking your partner try to run you down 100 times daily.

[Upyu]

FME, it's not a question of do you lean or not lean, but where you source the power from.
Is it from the kicking leg? the hips? or maybe the supporting leg?
Being rooted in my book has nothing to do with being stuck, it simply means you're sourcing your forces in an unusual way, such that to your opponent, the connecting appendage feels heavy.
The basis is still being "straight," but once you gain the body method, then it doesn't matter if you slant, dive, do the rumba etc when you kick.

I'd have to agree with John though, there's only so much you can learn statically. Then you got to have someone try and run you over and see if you can hold it together.