best conditioning exercise

[wkfung108]

You addressed Ashe, but I'll answer this:

No. The clips you posted weren't fights. The first was a "sucker punch." Technically, so was the second.

A fight involves an actual clash. Nobody "relaxes and maintains their breathing" when the other guy ACTUALLY ATTACKS. And you'll be reaching anaerobic capacity pretty much within the first 20 seconds of the fight, if not sooner. To use your clips as an example, if the other guy had actually blocked and countered (or blocked and forced the initiator to throw another punch, then it's a fight. And it would be anaerobic by the third "move.")

Keep in mind, by definition, it's only aerobic if you're only working at 60-70 percent max. A fight requires you to go all out, all the time, and that's anaerobic. That's why "strength endurance" is so much more important for a fighter (or combat athlete) than cardio endurance of the type a triathlete/cyclist/marathoner develops.

- Kent

how can anyone make blanket statements like "fighting's aerobic / anaerobic"? some are and some aren't.

if you're not in the anaerobic range, you're not fighting, you're playing.

Ashe, I agree with you like 80% of the time, but that is just utter bullshit.

Unless your definition of "fighting" is something along the lines of sparring for 10 rounds in a ring, then you are so off the mark it's incredible, coming from you.

What about people who can end a fight quickly? Or guys who are just good at staying relaxed and maintaining their breathing so that they don't get tired?

So according to you these aren't fights?

[gryphonz]

Fighting anyone at your own skill level or higher is pretty fucking tiring business. Cept when I'm drunk, then I don't exactly care either way.

[Ian]

You addressed Ashe, but I'll answer this:

No. The clips you posted weren't fights. The first was a "sucker punch." Technically, so was the second.

A fight involves an actual clash. Nobody "relaxes and maintains their breathing" when the other guy ACTUALLY ATTACKS. And you'll be reaching anaerobic capacity pretty much within the first 20 seconds of the fight, if not sooner. To use your clips as an example, if the other guy had actually blocked and countered (or blocked and forced the initiator to throw another punch, then it's a fight. And it would be anaerobic by the third "move.")

Keep in mind, by definition, it's only aerobic if you're only working at 60-70 percent max. A fight requires you to go all out, all the time, and that's anaerobic. That's why "strength endurance" is so much more important for a fighter (or combat athlete) than cardio endurance of the type a triathlete/cyclist/marathoner develops.

- Kent

Bah. Semantics are boring. "It's only a fight, per se, if....." I'm not going to get into that with you.

FWIW, I have been in proper fights, and I have fought in the ring, and I have rolled with bjj and judo guys. The only time I ever gassed out was during my tkd days when I was needlessly jumping around doing spinning back kicks.

a) the core of my training is to maintain breathing and relaxation under higher workloads
b) I actually do cardio, which is probably more than you could say for certain people who only do standing

So for all those people who think it's not fighting just because you're not in the anaerobic range, well I guess I've proved to my own satisfaction that you're wrong.

And for those people who think it's impossible to relax and maintain breathing in the ring or in a proper fight, well I guess you might want to train something different. I don't know.

I'm not here to win over any hearts and minds. You think it's impossible? Ask your teacher.

[wkfung108]

I suppose you think it's also a fight when a mugger assaults a little ol' lady. In which case, I'll agree that a fight doesn't necessarily require conditioning or effort.

If you've rolled with bjj and judo guys without gassing out, then they weren't pushing you--either because they were being polite or because their skill level is significantly below yours.

We'll have to agree to disagree. If you didn't have to go all out and nearly gas out, it wasn't a fight. It was a beatdown of someone not in your league.

(Similarly, in the gym, if you don't feel like death and come close to puking afterward, it wasn't a workout.)

You addressed Ashe, but I'll answer this:

No. The clips you posted weren't fights. The first was a "sucker punch." Technically, so was the second.

A fight involves an actual clash. Nobody "relaxes and maintains their breathing" when the other guy ACTUALLY ATTACKS. And you'll be reaching anaerobic capacity pretty much within the first 20 seconds of the fight, if not sooner. To use your clips as an example, if the other guy had actually blocked and countered (or blocked and forced the initiator to throw another punch, then it's a fight. And it would be anaerobic by the third "move.")

Keep in mind, by definition, it's only aerobic if you're only working at 60-70 percent max. A fight requires you to go all out, all the time, and that's anaerobic. That's why "strength endurance" is so much more important for a fighter (or combat athlete) than cardio endurance of the type a triathlete/cyclist/marathoner develops.

- Kent

Bah. Semantics are boring. "It's only a fight, per se, if....." I'm not going to get into that with you.

FWIW, I have been in proper fights, and I have fought in the ring, and I have rolled with bjj and judo guys. The only time I ever gassed out was during my tkd days when I was needlessly jumping around doing spinning back kicks.

a) the core of my training is to maintain breathing and relaxation under higher workloads
b) I actually do cardio, which is probably more than you could say for certain people who only do standing

So for all those people who think it's not fighting just because you're not in the anaerobic range, well I guess I've proved to my own satisfaction that you're wrong.

And for those people who think it's impossible to relax and maintain breathing in the ring or in a proper fight, well I guess you might want to train something different. I don't know.

I'm not here to win over any hearts and minds. You think it's impossible? Ask your teacher.

[ashe]

Ashe, I agree with you like 80% of the time, but that is just utter bullshit.

well 80% is pretty good. even best freinds disagree.

anyway, i'm inclined to agree with wkf. violence is not the same thing as fighting.

but anyway, just because your efforts are over quickly, still doesn't mean you're not working in the anaerobic range.

it's just math. output over "x" time exceeds the input.

just because you don't notice it till you're overdrawn doesn't mean your not spending more than you make.

[Ian]

I If you've rolled with bjj and judo guys without gassing out, then they weren't pushing you--either because they were being polite or because their skill level is significantly below yours.

We'll have to agree to disagree. If you didn't have to go all out and nearly gas out, it wasn't a fight. It was a beatdown of someone not in your league.

(Similarly, in the gym, if you don't feel like death and come close to puking afterward, it wasn't a workout.)

I've competed in marathon trail runs. I've done hardcore swim training with Australian swim teams. I've done those crossfit exercises that indeed make you want to puke.

But I haven't gassed out in fights, the ring, or on the mat.

I find it very hard to believe that this is simply because every single person I've met was of lesser skill or was being nice to me. In fact 50% of the time it was against people who were better.

Take that as you will.

well 80% is pretty good. even best freinds disagree.

Agree to disagree, then

I don't know much about specialization, but some people have better cardio. I can't lift as heavy as the big guys, but I can outrun them.

[Walk the Torque]

Hi all, came into this one a bit late.

Love swimming, can't stand running (too boring for me).

Lately though, I just purchased a weighted vest. I am trying to make my conditioning as close to how I'll use it, so I figured I'd go the root of doing (fast and slow) form practice till I am fit enough that I don't notice 16k, and then start sparring with 8k and work my way up till it gets to the point of diminishing returns. I know 16k is alot but I think it will be worth it in the end.

On a side note,

One thing I've discovered so far is that the stability and resultant power has done a bit of a quantum leap It has also seemed to help me deliver power in shorter movements. Loving it so far. I'm going to incorporate it into my standing practice to see if there is any benefits.

Has anyone had experience with these vests for martial specific training?

[Ian]

No but I've trained running with my 16kg kettlebell.

Interesting, but not something I'd do all the time and not something I find necessary.

Running is boring unless you have specific neigong goals, in which case it's really really interesting!

[wkfung108]

Now THAT's not a bad idea. Logistics question: you carry it racked, or do you put it in a backpack? If if it's the latter, how do you keep it from bumping into your back as you run?

Running is boring, but trail running--if you're fortunate enough to live by some woods--is pretty cool.

In response to an earlier post, Ian, I suppose if I'd never gassed out in the ring or a fight, I'd see things your way too. And though I'm generally considered by others to be very fit, it sounds like you're at a higher level than me, so good for you.

-Kent

No but I've trained running with my 16kg kettlebell.

Interesting, but not something I'd do all the time and not something I find necessary.

Running is boring unless you have specific neigong goals, in which case it's really really interesting!

[Ian]

In response to an earlier post, Ian, I suppose if I'd never gassed out in the ring or a fight, I'd see things your way too. And though I'm generally considered by others to be very fit, it sounds like you're at a higher level than me, so good for you.

Kent,

It's not just a question of overall fitness. If you breathe in proportion to your workload (higher workload = quicker breaths), you stay in control of your oxygen consumption and don't even approach anaerobic respiration. Anyone can do it with a bit of practice. So right now when I wrestle or spar, I can go for at least an hour and still feel fresh. I'm sure those karateka have to train something similar for their 100 man kumite, otherwise it'd be impossible.

Btw, I don't agree that I'm a higher level than you. It's about specialization. I know for a fact that ashe, for example, can lift a lot more than I can.

Now THAT's not a bad idea. Logistics question: you carry it racked, or do you put it in a backpack? If if it's the latter, how do you keep it from bumping into your back as you run?

Racked, down by the dantien, suitcase carry on one side... never carried it in a backpack, though I've done trail running whilst carrying camping gear of greater weight than that.

Running is boring, but trail running--if you're fortunate enough to live by some woods--is pretty cool.

Damn right! I can't stand treadmills, but discovering cities, forests, mountain trails etc. on foot is one of the best feelings in the world

[Bhassler]

A little quote for ya, Ian:

"The sensation of effort is the subjective feeling of wasted movement."
-Moshe Feldenkrais

[TaoJoannes]

A little quote for ya, Ian:

"The sensation of effort is the subjective feeling of wasted movement."
-Moshe Feldenkrais

WORD.

My teacher used to say that if what you're doing feels strong to you, it'll feel weak to me.

[ashe]

I know for a fact that ashe, for example, can lift a lot more than I can.

how so, since i've never posted any numbers?

[Bhassler]

Have you SEEN Ian? Dude looks like Calista Flockhart. Merely the weight of your goatee would drag him to earth.







Actually, I've never met Ian. I hope he doesn't hunt me down and kill me...

[ashe]