Fighters Cirriculum?

[dave]

Great topic.

For sport fighting:

I'd add recovery (hot cold dips, pool sessions, massage etc) and diet management.

What about session planning? Skill training, like the partner work, can be done frequently, like 2x a day, 20-45 mins each; cardio you need more time, but only maybe 3x a week? Strength 1 hour 2-3x a week, also need to plan meals and recovery, and not do strength or skill training right after long cardio sessions.


Partner work:

drills- from closed skill to open skill (gentile's continuum for teaching open skills),
randomise the types of skill each session to improve memory and recall,
contextualise skill from learning/practicing environment into situational based environment, trying to reproduce the environment the skills are to be used in, like lighting levels, day/night, inside/outside, clothing, in the ring/octagon, what rules, 3 min rounds, 6, 8, 12 rounds etc.

All IMO only.

[neijia_boxer]

Nice dave! why havent i heard from cerebrus or ashe?

[cerebus]

why havent i heard from cerebrus or ashe?

'Cause ya'll got everything covered...

[dave]

What about people who can't fit in everything on this list, but would still like to be a "fighter", and either enter local competitions, or learn a little self defense? In other words, what can one do without and still be competent in self defense /sport fighting?
I think some of these training methods are essential, and others, while not essential, would still provide benefit.
Solo training is important, but in terms of self defense (IMO!), not as important as partner work.

If we practice an "art" (xinyi, bagua, taiji etc), then solo training becomes much more important, because we need to develop shenfa and all the rest, and then, again, try to bring those attributes into our partner work.

I used to think this meant practicing an "art" meant needing a longer timeframe to be able to use it, but in reality, you can train both self defense and the art concurrently, and
a)develop self defense skills in a reasonable time, then
b)continually refine your self defense skills with the body methods you learn from the art.
c)add sport specific training for competition for those who wish

Another question for those who teach self defense or sport fighting-

Do you prefer to:

A) teach like people are enrolled in a unit, and say, over 12 weeks progress from point A to point B (students must be there from week 1 to week 12)

B)teach a class where people can just show up and start anytime (more common?), and split class into beginner, intermediate, advanced etc...

C)...

[RobP2]

Great topic.

For sport fighting:

I'd add recovery (hot cold dips, pool sessions, massage etc) and diet management.

Good point. For everyone I'd add in massage, manipulation, health and healing work

As far as time goes - if you approach your training a certain way it doesn't have to take hours. But - to the horror of some - you will have to forget the approach of "eating bitter" and practicing forms or stances for hours a day. Break your work down into modules - and also recognise the cross-overs you can build in.

For example a rouitne of press-ups, squats and sit-ups can take say 15 minutes. Into that you can add breathing work and work on posture, tension and relaxation. When you come to work with people recognise where and when you are doing essentially the same movements as your exercises - no need to train them through hours of form.

Of course I could be flippant and just type "systema" which pretty much covers it all for me, but I wouldn't dream of it

cheers
Rob

[RobP2]

Another question for those who teach self defense or sport fighting-

Do you prefer to:

A) teach like people are enrolled in a unit, and say, over 12 weeks progress from point A to point B (students must be there from week 1 to week 12)

B)teach a class where people can just show up and start anytime (more common?), and split class into beginner, intermediate, advanced etc...

C)...

People show up any time, but we don't split the class, everyone trains in together. Splitting into modules /topics can be done for convenience, but at some point people hopefully realise that we are working on pretty much the same things all the time (a principle approach). Once people grasp that it's just question of working the principles in different circumstances. So rather than think "I need to learn a right hook to solve problem X" we will put people into problem X and see what answers they can come up with. With a bit of guidance we find this allows people to explore all the options open to them without being told they are doing something "wrong" or "that's not in the syllabus". Hopefully it teaches people to see the underlying principles of any situation and react accordingly.

I know it's a difficult concept for some to grasp but if it didn't work I wouldn't be doing it!

cheers

Rob

[DeusTrismegistus]

What is essential on this list?

Well I think that depends on what you are training for.

Military, LEO, Self defence, security, sport fighting will all have different goals and therefore training approaches needed.

A person training for self defence does not need the cardio of an MMA fighter. An MMA fighter does not need the weapons skills of a LEO. The LEO will need to be able to subdue and control where as the military man will need to kill quickly. They all have different needs.

Regardless of focus though sparring in its various intensities and speeds is a must. If you can do nothing else then you should spend your time sparring.

For cardio I would say interval training would be the most beneficical.

[cerebus]

For the average guy interested in being able to use their art, whether in sport or self defense, I'd say the bare minimum training should be:

-working basic technique (strikes, kicks, etc), done with correct structure, principles, etc., both singly and in combination, preferably on a heavy bag.
-working defensive techniques (blocking, deflecting, covering, evading, etc.), in drills with a partner, also incorporating counter-striking.
-working "entering" from an opponent's strike or kick, into a counter-strike and/or takedown.
-sparring, both light contact (for reaction, distancing, timing, angling, etc) and hard/ full contact (for realism and being able to handle someone trying to knock you on your ass).
-cardio.

Of course, there is much more that can be added, but I'd say that would be my own "core" recommendations.

[Juan]

I wanted to start a new thread after reading some of the 'Watered down' thread and 'taiji on heavy bag' thread on what types of things you would include in your realistic fight training.
I'll go ahead and start with some things and add what you think are some items that need to be included:

Based on training with people who are serious about fighting here are some things they use and suggest to make a better fighter:
-warm-ups and stretching to prevent injury
-strength training:
1. without equipment (push ups, sit ups, squats, ect)
2. kettlebells
3. medicine ball
4. traditional weights- free weights, bar, machines
5. resistance/ elastic bands
-Bags:
1. heavy bag
2. double ended bag
3. upper cut bag
4. speed bag
- Pad work:
1. belly pad
2. focus mitts
3. thai pads
- cardio type work:
1. running
2. stairs
3. circuit work
-Solo work
1. shadow boxing
2. forms
-Partner work
1. simulated sparring- spar with limited technique or specific drill
2. application work: research techniques- strikes, throws, drilling techniques, ect
3. live sparring- all techniques non drill specific
4. push hands/rou shou
5. two person sets
6. Randori/bjj rolling
- mental work
1. meditation
2. qigong
3. reading- books on fighters, philosophy, styles of martial arts
4. watching fights
5. Chess/Go
7. visualization
8. study of opponent and style

Nice...can't think of anything else to add besides what dave said about recovery.

[neijia_boxer]

additions:

Pad work:
kick shield

apparatus:
wing chun dummy
pakua pole
pakua 3 poles
pakua 9 poles
Jump rope

dave and rob: health and Recovery tools
Diet: TCM therapy, calorie intake, low cholestrol diet, glycemic diet, alkaline/low acidic diet.
Massage: accupressure, thai, refloxology, deep tissue, ect.
Pilates- developes core/powerhouse (thighs,hips, abs)
chiropractic/manipulation
acupunture
hot/cold bath therapy
dit dao jiao/liniments
supplements: vitamins, minerals, protein, ect.
herbs: ginger, ginseng, ect

session planning:
seperating workout routines-
strength day
forms day
sparring day
circuits/interval day
ect.

Partner work/timing:
ring training- 2 min. rounds, 3 min. rounds. 1-3 rounds. 1-6 rounds. 1-12 rounds.
Octagon trianing- three 5 min. rounds. five 5 min. rounds.
other sport timing trainings- judo, jujitsu ect.

[vadaga]

rope skipping for sure

also, (properly formatted) bogu kumite is a good one. (for examples copy and paste this into the youtube search window: 防具組手)

Apparatus: 'tree'

[neijia_boxer]

rope skipping...nice vadaga. i kept forgetting to include that one.

[Chris McKinley]

This thread is just gold after gold. Thanks to all who have contributed.

[johnwang]

If we want to list TCMA equipment training methods, we may have to write a book just for that.

- Single head
- double head
- Gon rotation
- pole hanging
- bag throwing
- short stick twist
- long stick twist
- cane bundle twist
- cane bundle
- weight pulley
- brick twist
- steel ball scooping
- basket carry
- single leg up hill hopping with pole
- human flag
- jar holding
- ...

If we also include solo training method:

- down hill leg lifting flip
- wagon track jumping
- grasshopper catching
- ...

[bigphatwong]

right now it would probably look something like:

Warm-up & Stretch
Ba Duan Jin (health b4 fighting)
Rise Drill-Overturn-Fall
San Ti
Individual 5 Elements with various stepping methods
Linking Form, for strength and endurance
Basic Boxing hand tools, footwork & defense
Basic 5 Weapon Cuts, offensive & defensive combinations
4 x 3 min. rounds of bagwork, sparring or randori, with 2 minute rests & hydration in between
Big 3 Exercises: Push-ups, Crunches & Leg Raises, holding at end
Standing Meditation (cool down)

I get most of my cardio from hiking and biking, so I don't see any point of adding roadwork to my already-limited training time. I do like how neijia boxer incorporates chess into his training format...combining sound physical methods and strategic thinking seems pure genius to me. Maybe Chessboxing?