Best internal guys alive today?

[Rhen]

I have seen 4 or 5 of those on this list fight in person, and for most of those it was nothing to write home about. Fighting is a good thing to consider though, but perhaps winning is a better indicator than just stepping in there? Applying technique under pressure would be another one.

I know, I am (despite spelling but thanks man), I have taught, and I have even fought, quite a few on that list, and they have had outstanding victories - national, international, and in some cases world champions, sometimes world ranked for over a decade.
And a lot of them have gone on to train their own students who have also been champions, and not in local best in the village events but on world amateur events with over 80 countries involved and professional events against UFC veterans, so clearly they KNOW what they are about.
I don't know all the people there, but there is certainly enough "champions" and inexcusably well known "champions" that has my eyebrows lifting reading a statement (nothing to write home about) that seeks to diminish their competitive achievements. Like there are people on that list (3) who fought in Beijing in 2008 as part of the Olympic event, though granted not part of the Olympics, but basically we are talking about Olympic standard athletes...
O.K. perhaps you don't follow that stuff... but jaysus...[/quote]
Niall,

I fought San Shou and Kuoshu and ended with a record of 38-3, I have also trained fighters that have won in that venue several times as well. I am very familiar with that world and those in it. You are correct that there are some very talented people in that list, and I am not taking away from them at all. I will say though without dropping names that there are others on that list that were not great fighters and one or two that I never even saw win a match. I remain unimpressed by that as in the end, participating takes guts, but winning takes a hell of a lot more. I have respect for anyone that has the guts to step in that ring, I am just saying that stepping in is not the same as coming out on top consistently. Agreed?[/quote]


Respectfully, could you please share any of your combative clips with the group/forum? 41 fights is a lot of fights not to have some clips of in the day and age, of cell phone cameras, hand cameras ect. All those people i have mentioned have something online to share on youtube. Can you please direct us to where we may find some of your fight clips? It would help us understand you much better.

Thank you,
Rhen

[MaartenSFS]

Calm down, mates.. If you would take a sip of that kool-aid you would UNDERSTAND. You would SEE. BELIEVE.

In all seriousness, how am I going to market my shite when I get back to the West and not attract LARPers but still attract those that want to learn how to fight. I think the answer is to post lots of fighting clips on Youtube!

Today some clusterfucks were doing knife fighting drills in the park and the stuff they were training was pure suicide.. None of it would have worked against someone with a fake, rubber knife let alone someone that wanted to see their insides... I don't get how most people that pretend to do martial arts actually believe their own lies...

[Niall Keane]

Calm down, mates...
...Today some clusterfucks were doing knife fighting drills in the park and the stuff they were training was pure suicide.. None of it would have worked against someone with a fake, rubber knife let alone someone that wanted to see their insides... I don't get how most people that pretend to do martial arts actually believe their own lies...

ah, its all good between fighters, the frustration at the unbelievable bs form the boxercise boys is just slipping out a bit... I was going to say something about the "soft" video too... but fcuk it... no point teaching a pig to sing, wastes your time and only annoys the pig." these lads may one day figure out the importance of distilling truth from lies in the world of martial arts, might be too late by then though, lets hope not, but overly-confident fools tend to get fcuked up, properly fcuked up, when they try their sh1t outside of wonderland. Especially when it comes to blades as you mentioned!

But sure, they are only training isolated skill... yea, and the human brain and nervous system is designed to know the difference when being programmed! a martial art and its preceding "master fighters" wouldn't be concerned at all about ensuring drills that isolate don't have negative effects on other areas of their own and students development... I read that "even tai chi" has drills that leave massive openings... no... that would be the push hands of tai chi boxercise, tai chi boxing doesn't train and programme error, quite the opposite, it concerns itself with eradicating that "minute discrepancy that leads to the error of 1000 miles". The boxercise boys probably view that passage and the rest of the classics as dance instructions about hand form... FFS! Its true though, most of the boxercise lineages practice the likes of 4 directions without a guard, traditionally one is corrected in this error by a slap on the face during the drill, but like sparring and such, this doesn't take place in a boxercise class. and lets not go down the road of tuishou drills and related sanshou applications that, post absolute useless beginner stage are supposed to be incorporated with increasing unpredictability and resistance... Its that fcukin bad though... sh1t practice is pointed at as the valid method and ...... watch the tumble weed roll across the silence of contrary opinion in the dessert of martial ability!

[Niall Keane]

Granted though, blame cannot be solely placed upon the jedi, some past masters with ability have deliberately incorporated error and lazy practices into their public offerings, from arms not in use being left limp, not keeping guard to incorrect footwork that fucks up instead of aiding technique to woefully poor applications empty of what makes them work. Their inside-the-door students usually display quite a different intent and physical deportment, but this secrecy fetish about "door techniques" and zhen chuan has laid the foundation for the delusions of today, delusion that flies in the face of classic writings, or perversely tries to force them into their misunderstanding of martial virtue.

The prevalent martial ineptitude among the vast, vast majority of CMA practitioners is their legacy!

We have reached so low a place now, that converse to say western boxing, people with no fight experience nor coaching (fighters) experience are bestowed with "respect" from even "main-stream" martial arts press and this is accepted by many unquestionably... and the lies.. the so transparently pathetic lies... old dude gets a big lad to throw around and demonstrate his martial art to the ignorant public... and we who question are then seriously expected to accept that the circus we just watched is really a "deep" way of practice and not meant to "impress the ignorant". "no I wasn't trying to steal your jacket, I was just looking for my keys, I left them around here somewhere..." Yea pal! do I look that green?

[Niall Keane]

on a positive note...

the kids of today with youtube and social media know the suss...
the charlatans and their minions are getting older year by year... I give that nonsense 25 years tops.
then good riddance and IMA can begin again with a clean slate and a different name no doubt.

Here in Ireland, probably due to a number of factors... the amount of sanda, muay thai and mma competition circuits, the outspoken and internationally successful coaches, the culture of boxing etc... this has already happened to a large extent.
The biggest gung fu schools are schools who train for combat sports, sanda, shaui jiao, tuishou wrestling, and/or mma. some years ago gung fu struggled against MMA. now schools like Kildare MMA (Choy Lay Fut) , Dundalk Sanda (Wudang), YMAA Ireland (White Crane and Ban Hou Tai Chi Chuan), Shaolin MMA (Wing Tsun), Wudang Sanshou, Blue Dragon (Iron Palm), Li Ching Wu (short Fist), are producing hundreds of Sanda and MMA fighters, from amateur to pro who get to cross hands with Connor McGreggors SBG (JKD I guess?) team mates on a regular basis, and sometimes win, sometimes lose, just to give you all an idea of the level they now enjoy. Most Irish gungfu embraced the opportunity offered by the MMA revolution and they are reaping the benefit. Even the one-time mcDojos have had to hire in regular coaches to train a fight team and now have switched focus, the child-minding becoming a funding mechanism to pursue martial arts rather than martial arts used as a lure to grow a creche business. Some, for sure refuse to evolve...

And in the dark backrooms of yoga centers and secondary schools the rapidly aging chi-masters make the same tired corrections to hand positions among their senior citizen students. Every day is groundhog day... as the lights grow dimmer.

They have made themselves irrelevant!

[willie]

on a positive note...

the kids of today with youtube and social media know the suss...
the charlatans and their minions are getting older year by year... I give that nonsense 25 years tops.
then good riddance and IMA can begin again with a clean slate and a different name no doubt.

Here in Ireland, probably due to a number of factors... the amount of sanda, muay thai and mma competition circuits, the outspoken and internationally successful coaches, the culture of boxing etc... this has already happened to a large extent.
The biggest gung fu schools are schools who train for combat sports, sanda, shaui jiao, tuishou wrestling, and/or mma. some years ago gung fu struggled against MMA. now schools like Kildare MMA (Choy Lay Fut) , Dundalk Sanda (Wudang), YMAA Ireland (White Crane and Ban Hou Tai Chi Chuan), Shaolin MMA (Wing Tsun), Wudang Sanshou, Blue Dragon (Iron Palm), Li Ching Wu (short Fist), are producing hundreds of Sanda and MMA fighters, from amateur to pro who get to cross hands with Connor McGreggors SBG (JKD I guess?) team mates on a regular basis, and sometimes win, sometimes lose, just to give you all an idea of the level they now enjoy. Most Irish gungfu embraced the opportunity offered by the MMA revolution and they are reaping the benefit. Even the one-time mcDojos have had to hire in regular coaches to train a fight team and now have switched focus, the child-minding becoming a funding mechanism to pursue martial arts rather than martial arts used as a lure to grow a creche business. Some, for sure refuse to evolve...

And in the dark backrooms of yoga centers and secondary schools the rapidly aging chi-masters make the same tired corrections to hand positions among their senior citizen students. Every day is groundhog day... as the lights grow dimmer.

They have made themselves irrelevant!

Actually it's the exact opposite.
The kids are stupid.
The media bias and as those lights of the aging tai chi masters fade, so does the light of the entire world.

[I am...]

I have seen 4 or 5 of those on this list fight in person, and for most of those it was nothing to write home about. Fighting is a good thing to consider though, but perhaps winning is a better indicator than just stepping in there? Applying technique under pressure would be another one.

I know, I am (despite spelling but thanks man), I have taught, and I have even fought, quite a few on that list, and they have had outstanding victories - national, international, and in some cases world champions, sometimes world ranked for over a decade.
And a lot of them have gone on to train their own students who have also been champions, and not in local best in the village events but on world amateur events with over 80 countries involved and professional events against UFC veterans, so clearly they KNOW what they are about.
I don't know all the people there, but there is certainly enough "champions" and inexcusably well known "champions" that has my eyebrows lifting reading a statement (nothing to write home about) that seeks to diminish their competitive achievements. Like there are people on that list (3) who fought in Beijing in 2008 as part of the Olympic event, though granted not part of the Olympics, but basically we are talking about Olympic standard athletes...
O.K. perhaps you don't follow that stuff... but jaysus...

Niall,

I fought San Shou and Kuoshu and ended with a record of 38-3, I have also trained fighters that have won in that venue several times as well. I am very familiar with that world and those in it. You are correct that there are some very talented people in that list, and I am not taking away from them at all. I will say though without dropping names that there are others on that list that were not great fighters and one or two that I never even saw win a match. I remain unimpressed by that as in the end, participating takes guts, but winning takes a hell of a lot more. I have respect for anyone that has the guts to step in that ring, I am just saying that stepping in is not the same as coming out on top consistently. Agreed?[/quote]


Respectfully, could you please share any of your combative clips with the group/forum? 41 fights is a lot of fights not to have some clips of in the day and age, of cell phone cameras, hand cameras ect. All those people i have mentioned have something online to share on youtube. Can you please direct us to where we may find some of your fight clips? It would help us understand you much better.

Thank you,
Rhen
Rhen,[/quote]

No idea who you are but I am more than happy to meet in person. I have done so with a few people from the old EF as well as this board and you are welcome to check out my webpage if you want to know more about who I am. http://www.appliedcombat.com

As far as the people in that list, I agree that there are several on there that are fantastic. I also know of a few that I would say are no where near the caliber of the others listed. I don't feel I need to name names. My statement about "nothing to write home about" was directed towards those I feel have not achieved what the others have. I read back over my initial post and you are right, the tone sort of reads like I am not impressed with any of them. I meant it more to say that those 4 or 5 don't really belong up there with the rest.

[Rhen]

No idea who you are but I am more than happy to meet in person. I have done so with a few people from the old EF as well as this board and you are welcome to check out my webpage if you want to know more about who I am. http://www.appliedcombat.com

As far as the people in that list, I agree that there are several on there that are fantastic. I also know of a few that I would say are no where near the caliber of the others listed. I don't feel I need to name names. My statement about "nothing to write home about" was directed towards those I feel have not achieved what the others have. I read back over my initial post and you are right, the tone sort of reads like I am not impressed with any of them. I meant it more to say that those 4 or 5 don't really belong up there with the rest.

I didn't read it that way. I'm overseas and across continents, but it looks like you do White eyebrow? I'm just a Taiji guy, besides wanting to watch some fight vids, in particular guys who do kung fu, which means yours. I mean, you said you have a lot of fights. Did you not get any footage?

Rhen

[I am...]

No idea who you are but I am more than happy to meet in person. I have done so with a few people from the old EF as well as this board and you are welcome to check out my webpage if you want to know more about who I am. http://www.appliedcombat.com

As far as the people in that list, I agree that there are several on there that are fantastic. I also know of a few that I would say are no where near the caliber of the others listed. I don't feel I need to name names. My statement about "nothing to write home about" was directed towards those I feel have not achieved what the others have. I read back over my initial post and you are right, the tone sort of reads like I am not impressed with any of them. I meant it more to say that those 4 or 5 don't really belong up there with the rest.

I didn't read it that way. I'm overseas and across continents, but it looks like you do White eyebrow? I'm just a Taiji guy, besides wanting to watch some fight vids, in particular guys who do kung fu, which means yours. I mean, you said you have a lot of fights. Did you not get any footage?

Rhen

I do practice White Eyebrow/Pak Mei. I do not put footage up on the internet and never really have.

[GrahamB]

on a positive note...

the kids of today with youtube and social media know the suss...
the charlatans and their minions are getting older year by year... I give that nonsense 25 years tops.
then good riddance and IMA can begin again with a clean slate and a different name no doubt.

Here in Ireland, probably due to a number of factors... the amount of sanda, muay thai and mma competition circuits, the outspoken and internationally successful coaches, the culture of boxing etc... this has already happened to a large extent.
The biggest gung fu schools are schools who train for combat sports, sanda, shaui jiao, tuishou wrestling, and/or mma. some years ago gung fu struggled against MMA. now schools like Kildare MMA (Choy Lay Fut) , Dundalk Sanda (Wudang), YMAA Ireland (White Crane and Ban Hou Tai Chi Chuan), Shaolin MMA (Wing Tsun), Wudang Sanshou, Blue Dragon (Iron Palm), Li Ching Wu (short Fist), are producing hundreds of Sanda and MMA fighters, from amateur to pro who get to cross hands with Connor McGreggors SBG (JKD I guess?) team mates on a regular basis, and sometimes win, sometimes lose, just to give you all an idea of the level they now enjoy. Most Irish gungfu embraced the opportunity offered by the MMA revolution and they are reaping the benefit. Even the one-time mcDojos have had to hire in regular coaches to train a fight team and now have switched focus, the child-minding becoming a funding mechanism to pursue martial arts rather than martial arts used as a lure to grow a creche business. Some, for sure refuse to evolve...

And in the dark backrooms of yoga centers and secondary schools the rapidly aging chi-masters make the same tired corrections to hand positions among their senior citizen students. Every day is groundhog day... as the lights grow dimmer.

They have made themselves irrelevant!

Niall,

I like what you're saying about the need to see through the obvious 'divorced from reality' attitude that the martial arts can fall foul of, but to play Devil's Advocate - if all the CMA clubs become MMA clubs... what's the point of keeping anything either "Chinese" or "internal" about them at all? Wouldn't you just get better faster doing pure MMA (I'd argue MMA is a style, not just somebody who trains multiple styles)? Why not drop everything like forms, nei kung, 1 inch punch, 5 point exploding heart technique, etc, ?

I don't have a horse in this race, I'm just interested to know what your answer is really.

Thanks,
Graham

[Bugang]

amor I am not sure if I understand your Question on Page 18 of the thread.

[Bugang]

@ amor again: yes, Vincents Form looks bad.

1.) He departs from the Classical Yang SC Way when exercising the forms. Gim says he is so good, he can do anything... ?
2.) He's not the kind of guy with an bodily appearance to impress the audience in terms of pretty positions and movements
3.) You can see excessive Kyphosis (there is a thread on this somewhere)

Anyway, as I admittedly know only from hearsay - but at least hearsay from a guy MUCH stronger than I can ever hope to become - he is incredibly strong.
Well that's just about it.

[Bugang]

Demo of a Student. (better mute the sound)

Maybe said / unsaid rsf member likes this better

[MaartenSFS]

Thanks for the good laughs, but that's only helping me to stop from crying.. The worst part is that these people that are living int their fantasy worlds will do anything to stay there, out of harms reach.

I draw the line at competition records being that important, especially in CMA, where half of what we do is illegal without some modification. Sparring videos or accounts from many people is good enough for me. I've never been in a competition, but I spar as often as I can and I have fought (usually glove-less) with random people in the parks. I think that there is always some risk and courage involved to cross hands with someone that you don't know, whether in or out of a ring. I care more about self defence than competitions, so being able to defeat the best athletes out there is of little importance to me. I think that sparring with and without safety equipment is a great way to get the best of both worlds.

I also firmly believe that traditional training methods, including forms (to an extent), is extremely important and can improve any fighter's game.

[windwalker]

Thanks for the good laughs, but that's only helping me to stop from crying.. The worst part is that these people that are living int their fantasy worlds will do anything to stay there, out of harms reach.

I draw the line at competition records being that important, especially in CMA, where half of what we do is illegal without some modification. Sparring videos or accounts from many people is good enough for me. I've never been in a competition, but I spar as often as I can and I have fought (usually glove-less) with random people in the parks. I think that there is always some risk and courage involved to cross hands with someone that you don't know, whether in or out of a ring. I care more about self defence than competitions, so being able to defeat the best athletes out there is of little importance to me. I think that sparring with and without safety equipment is a great way to get the best of both worlds.

I also firmly believe that traditional training methods, including forms (to an extent), is extremely important and can improve any fighter's game.

like reading you, living the adventure

worked with competitors in my time.....IME there's really no comparison between them and what some might call amateur levels of engagement.

"respect" the ring its a different world...even for those not listed as the best,,,who play in it....