the rum soaked fist: internal martial arts forum

mrtoes wrote:In case this thread isn't totally derailed

How does CK Chu stack up?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UWWYliy3 ... re=related

Or Mike Patterson?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m5wzaDgYQZA

Never met either but they seem to have good records as trainers.

Matthew.

i seen CK Chu and Mike patterson guys fight on Lei tai. I been a big fan of Mike Patterson accomplishments and guys that made it big with Hsingyi and Pakua.

One exception being that he has decided he seriously wants to promote the style, just not himself. He wants to get his own Shifu's name out there more, Zhang Xiang-wu. He's very interested in promotion in general terms, just not in building a student base per se. It's more important to him to get awareness up of Zhang Xiang-wu for whom, as most of us know, there is very little public information as a result of 20th century politics.

Tom,

I guess you mean this guy:
http://v.blog.sohu.com/u/vw/2186524
http://www.56.com/u88/v_MzU5MzEzNTc.html

No. Never met him. The main Zhaobao guy in Xi'an is Li Sui-cheng. http://www.56.com/u88/v_MzU5MzEzNTc.html
or alternatively: http://you.video.sina.com.cn/b/85029-1251542403.html

He's got very good Shuai Jiao skills but is still not in the same class as Shifu, IMHO. Maybe it's the combination of Baji + Taiji but I have never seen anyone else who could both be as light and subtle or as simply scarily explosive at the same time. When he turns on the Baji he's just freaking made of granite. You hurt your arms against him but most of the time he's just a ghost. Sometimes I tend to relate to some of the old stories of training with some of the old Aiki guys. There's not such a clear training methodology. It's not systematized and the burden is really on you yourself to learn certain stuff but when you do get it, you really get it deep.

Sorry to say, for the internet crowd anyways, yes, he talks a lot about the ephemerals too. Uses all those dirty words that by broad consensus "prove" that he can't possibly fight...but what do I know.

cdobe wrote:How do you rationalize that the Systema guys are internal. The arm-only hitting for instance seems to be something entirely different from all IMAs.

It seems MR can toss folks around as well as anyone who has internal skill. Besides, the arm-only hitting thing is just one way of hitting in the system. Probably the most 'controversial', that's why people focus on it. But my favorite hits are still those full body slaps

Andy_S wrote:SNIP
This isn't a question about the best fighters, btw. I wouldn't go to Sam Chin to learn about room clearing and firearms
SNIP

Eh?

Luo De-xiu, Su Dong-chen et al are excellent "fighters."

I think you are talking about soldiers - who require a a different skill-set altogether. But if you were a civilian...why would you need to know about "room clearing?"

If one were so inclined. I don't need to know about that stuff.. I was just pointing out that having internal skill and being able to use it is not the be-all, end-all of being a fighter / martial artist / whatever you want to call it.

Interloper wrote:The best internal guys alive today?
It's not likely that any of 'em would consider himself as such.

I'm not asking them to consider themselves the best, I'm asking for people to name-drop so that those willing to learn from the best can seek them out.

Dmitri wrote:

neijia_boxer wrote:yo momma

Yup, this thread is about as useful as a "Whose momma is da fattest?" thread would be.

Well it has been useful so far for me. I'm all about crossing hands with high-level people so any names or help I can get = win.

Thanks for all the suggestions so far.

Tom wrote:

Bodywork wrote:
Are you serious? I mean really?

Now Dan . . . just because you can't do that . . .

most of the tricks shown in the video are pretty good; however, I have no idea how 1:11 could have taken place. My "educated" guess is the two performers had worked on push hands practice together for a long time. One of them is a sifu, another student. Leaving the sifu alone, does any one here know the student in real life? anything "special" about this guy ? Thanks.

I vote for Ma Chuanxu, too, based on internal skills (and lineage!) as well as career (actually using his IMA skills to beat people up/capture them).

There are many other good IMA fighters, though, including some of Ma's disciples, other martial artists in Beijing, and others as well.

cerebus wrote:

Interloper wrote:The hell-hound is Cerberus.
Cerebus is an anime character.

True as far as it goes but... Cerebus is also a lesser-known, but correct varient of "Cerberus". See what ya learn from reading all kinds of weird, obscure Occult books...

That doesn't make any sense since the greek word is Kerberos (Κέρβερος)

Yes but we're speaking English here.

Both spellings are common just as you will often see both Heracles and Hercules and both are considered correct.

Omar (bailewen) wrote:Yes but we're speaking English here.

Both spellings are common just as you will often see both Heracles and Hercules and both are considered correct.

Yes and that's for a reason:
greek: Heracles
latin: Hercules

cerebus is just wrong AFAIC

Meh. You could be right. I always just figured that the Cerberus thing was also Greek vs. Latin.

Oh well.

Luo Dexiu -
I am sure that there are some excellent internal guys out there, some that we might not even be aware of. I am sure that all the folks mentioned on this thread (with the exception of yo mama) would have something valuable for all of us!

cerebus wrote:

Interloper wrote:The hell-hound is Cerberus.
Cerebus is an anime character.

True as far as it goes but... Cerebus is also a lesser-known, but correct varient of "Cerberus". See what ya learn from reading all kinds of weird, obscure Occult books...

But you have to understand. If I say that the sun is fueled by nuclear fusion, there WILL be contention of the fact on this board.

neijia_boxer wrote:i seen CK Chu and Mike patterson guys fight on Lei tai. I been a big fan of Mike Patterson accomplishments and guys that made it big with Hsingyi and Pakua.

I like the look of Pattersons stuff both from the fight vids and his demos. He's one of the very few guys you can point a sceptic to who asks to see tournament footage of "internal" guys fighting. I've heard criticism that his guys "look like they're using kickboxing" - who cares if they're laying the smackdown? "Look, it works!" <WHACK>

Matthew.

I-mon wrote:tomasz's tongbeiquan teacher in beijing is pretty amazing, his name's Li something I think.

Li Zhanhua

grzegorz wrote:I've never met anyone else who could demonstrate to me what my teacher could do, although they might be out there I think some of the best teachers are probably far from the limelight.

agreed

cerebus wrote:

Interloper wrote:The hell-hound is Cerberus.
Cerebus is an anime character.

True as far as it goes but... Cerebus is also a lesser-known, but correct varient of "Cerberus". See what ya learn from reading all kinds of weird, obscure Occult books...

I hate to break it to ya, Troy, but your namesake is a cartoon aardvark, not a 3-headed hound at the gates of Hades.
http://www.cerebustheaardvark.com/

justincasea wrote:

Tom wrote:

Bodywork wrote:
Are you serious? I mean really?

Now Dan . . . just because you can't do that . . .

most of the tricks shown in the video are pretty good; however, I have no idea how 1:11 could have taken place. My "educated" guess is the two performers had worked on push hands practice together for a long time. One of them is a sifu, another student. Leaving the sifu alone, does any one here know the student in real life? anything "special" about this guy ? Thanks.

"Special," as in that he may have drunk too much of the Sifu-Worship Kool-Ade? Remember hearing about the old-time medicine shows? They always had a stooge or accomplice who was "randomly" chosen from the audience to try the concoction... which always cured him of whatever ailment or disability he'd had ("I...I can SEE again!).

As to "how 1:11 could have taken place," consider that Mr. Tetreault was... fakin' it. I can't believe that video is still up after all this time. Don't know who to dismiss first, Chu or his amazingly bizarre demo partner who blatantly tanks and throws himself without being touched.

P.S. Lest someone drag out one of the later films of Ueshiba Morihei, in which adoring ukes throw themselves or fall over without being touched, keep in mind that even guys who do have IMA skills can have followers who are overcome by over-anticipation when approached by The Master. I swear that in some of those scenes, Ueshiba actually has a sheepish look on his face when an onlooker falls over on his own...