meeks wrote:Didn't this whole art start from "walking meditation"?
The way I understood it, the walking meditation came first, then they added the MA components into THAT practice to come up with what we know as bagua.
DHC: "Teach me how to fight, monk!"
Monk: "Go walk around that tree till you learn something."
that is a common misconception often portrayed from schools that practice empty forms. Circle walking is a physical struggle, difficult to maintain, and is very demanding conditioning. Done correctly you'll develop some mad skillz and power. But if you're just holding your hands in the air wondering if your form looks good you might as well go sit down, you're not utilizing your time efficiently.
the real story is more like:
"teach me how to fight, monk"
"ok, walk around that tree the way I showed you to until your a fucking badass"
for example, if you walk in a circle, twisted towards center, in 'ta zhang' (some schools call it something else) - where your hands are palm down at waist height every day for 1 year with proper jin, not just "I'm coordinating breath with movement to feel my qi as I walk like I'm rolling pencils under my feet" circle walking, you'll have some amazing power. Ta zhang is an iron palm exercise...but it only works if you do it correctly for at least an hours a day...not 8 steps x 2 directions.
Unfortunately most schools teach bagua forms only. that means 8 steps change direction 8 steps change palm. repeat until you've gone through your 8 palm changes. move on to something else...would you like to learn my xing yi now? (little dig at a 'bagua' school in Vancouver) they know bagua forms - they don't know bagua.
there's physical training, and there's meditation. some meditation is standing, some sitting. some is moving. but the palm changes, while having a qi gong effect are conditioning. If you want to do dynamic bagua qi gong, I've got oodles of exercises from our bagua system - none of it even remotely resembles 'bagua'. the focus of circle walking is not qi. if you only think about qi you'll never really get past that.
In the illustrious words of my old bagua shifu who trained bagua and almost nothing but bagua his whole life (since the 1930s - and he's still alive today in his 80s):
"Yang shifu, what about the qi in this posture?"
*smacks your face, hard* "think qi? no real. think jin? have qi naturally. practice jin, qi come. no practice jin, maybe little qi come" *makes hand gesture to symbolize a measurement of 1/2" *
TaoJoannes wrote:meeks wrote:Didn't this whole art start from "walking meditation"?
The way I understood it, the walking meditation came first, then they added the MA components into THAT practice to come up with what we know as bagua.
DHC: "Teach me how to fight, monk!"
Monk: "Go walk around that tree till you learn something."
that is a common misconception often portrayed from schools that practice empty forms. Circle walking is a physical struggle, difficult to maintain, and is very demanding conditioning. Done correctly you'll develop some mad skillz and power. But if you're just holding your hands in the air wondering if your form looks good you might as well go sit down, you're not utilizing your time efficiently.
the real story is more like:
"teach me how to fight, monk"
"ok, walk around that tree the way I showed you to until your a fucking badass"
for example, if you walk in a circle, twisted towards center, in 'ta zhang' (some schools call it something else) - where your hands are palm down at waist height every day for 1 year with proper jin, not just "I'm coordinating breath with movement to feel my qi as I walk like I'm rolling pencils under my feet" circle walking, you'll have some amazing power. Ta zhang is an iron palm exercise...but it only works if you do it correctly for at least an hours a day...not 8 steps x 2 directions.
Unfortunately most schools teach bagua forms only. that means 8 steps change direction 8 steps change palm. repeat until you've gone through your 8 palm changes. move on to something else...would you like to learn my xing yi now? (little dig at a 'bagua' school in Vancouver) they know bagua forms - they don't know bagua.
there's physical training, and there's meditation. some meditation is standing, some sitting. some is moving. but the palm changes, while having a qi gong effect are conditioning. If you want to do dynamic bagua qi gong, I've got oodles of exercises from our bagua system - none of it even remotely resembles 'bagua'. the focus of circle walking is not qi. if you only think about qi you'll never really get past that.
In the illustrious words of my old bagua shifu who trained bagua and almost nothing but bagua his whole life (since the 1930s - and he's still alive today in his 80s):
"Yang shifu, what about the qi in this posture?"
*smacks your face, hard* "think qi? no real. think jin? have qi naturally. practice jin, qi come. no practice jin, maybe little qi come" *makes hand gesture to symbolize a measurement of 1/2" *
What I mean to say is that the practice of walking meditation definitely predates bagua as a qigong practice in its own right and was originally introduced to DHC as a qigong practice that he slapped his alterations on for martial (and more qigong) purposes.
meeks wrote:for example, if you walk in a circle, twisted towards center, in 'ta zhang' (some schools call it something else) - where your hands are palm down at waist height every day for 1 year with proper jin, not just "I'm coordinating breath with movement to feel my qi as I walk like I'm rolling pencils under my feet" circle walking, you'll have some amazing power. Ta zhang is an iron palm exercise...but it only works if you do it correctly for at least an hours a day...not 8 steps x 2 directions.*
meeks wrote:Didn't this whole art start from "walking meditation"?
The way I understood it, the walking meditation came first, then they added the MA components into THAT practice to come up with what we know as bagua.
DHC: "Teach me how to fight, monk!"
Monk: "Go walk around that tree till you learn something."
that is a common misconception often portrayed from schools that practice empty forms. Circle walking is a physical struggle, difficult to maintain, and is very demanding conditioning. Done correctly you'll develop some mad skillz and power. But if you're just holding your hands in the air wondering if your form looks good you might as well go sit down, you're not utilizing your time efficiently.
the real story is more like:
"teach me how to fight, monk"
"ok, walk around that tree the way I showed you to until your a fucking badass"
for example, if you walk in a circle, twisted towards center, in 'ta zhang' (some schools call it something else) - where your hands are palm down at waist height every day for 1 year with proper jin, not just "I'm coordinating breath with movement to feel my qi as I walk like I'm rolling pencils under my feet" circle walking, you'll have some amazing power. Ta zhang is an iron palm exercise...but it only works if you do it correctly for at least an hours a day...not 8 steps x 2 directions.
Unfortunately most schools teach bagua forms only. that means 8 steps change direction 8 steps change palm. repeat until you've gone through your 8 palm changes. move on to something else...would you like to learn my xing yi now? (little dig at a 'bagua' school in Vancouver) they know bagua forms - they don't know bagua.
there's physical training, and there's meditation. some meditation is standing, some sitting. some is moving. but the palm changes, while having a qi gong effect are conditioning. If you want to do dynamic bagua qi gong, I've got oodles of exercises from our bagua system - none of it even remotely resembles 'bagua'. the focus of circle walking is not qi. if you only think about qi you'll never really get past that.
In the illustrious words of my old bagua shifu who trained bagua and almost nothing but bagua his whole life (since the 1930s - and he's still alive today in his 80s):
"Yang shifu, what about the qi in this posture?"
*smacks your face, hard* "think qi? no real. think jin? have qi naturally. practice jin, qi come. no practice jin, maybe little qi come" *makes hand gesture to symbolize a measurement of 1/2" *
Finally I see the real thing. "Rolling pencils under my feet" !!!! Cool!
May I ask who your instructor is? Thanks.
meeks wrote:Finally I see the real thing. "Rolling pencils under my feet" !!!! Cool!
May I ask who your instructor is? Thanks.
umm... did you read that correctly? my point was "it's not about looking like I'm rolling pencils under my feet" like some schools I have been to describe it.
him:"we tell our students to walk like they are rolling pencils under their feet - that way the feet stay flat. That is bagua walking"
me:"umm, no... that is NOT bagua walking. Making a singular circular step does not a bagua step make" (doesn't make it a bagua step). moving your foot flat doesn't make it one either."
him:"I think because you are foreigner you don't understand bagua"
me:"yea - that's got to be it. my, what beautiful high kicks that guy in the silk pajamas over there has...."*pointing in other direction*
I misunderstood what you mean. However, you know Bagua well, I am sure you know what I mean. Thanks!to answer your question about my instructor - I'll do better than that - here's my complete lineage:
Cheng Ting Hua->Xu Zhen Biu->Wang Wen Kui->Yang Guo Tai->Dave Meikle
Yang Shifu is in his 80s now. He did xing yi 5 elements from age 8 until 13. just 5 elements over and over and over every day. Then HIS shifu said "get it? good. lets do bagua now." and from age 13 until now (80s) that's pretty much all he's ever trained. I started training with him back in the mid 90s after learning bagua elsewhere, and had my own school. After I met Yang Shifu I closed my school and brought all my students to him. They eventually faded away and left.
I stayed on for quite a few years before he told me to re-open my school and start teaching his bagua, which I did before eventually moving to China for work. I now live in Vancouver, BC, Canada again. wanna be facebook buddies? (just kidding)
Return to Xingyiquan - Baguazhang - Taijiquan
Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 28 guests