Bagua 8 Postures -- Multiple purposes?

[Alexander]

Alrighty..

So we've got these 8 postures. Traditionally you were supposed to walk the circle holding them for a couple years. What is their purpose beyond being the strikes that comprise the 8 old palms? Someone recently mentioned that some (Fierce Tiger Comes Out of the MOuntain -- both palms facing down at waist) were used in an iron palm like manner.. and that holding them would condition the forearms, palms, etc.

Obviously if there were simply strikes, you wouldn't just hold them in static postures for three years.. you'd be missing out on a lot. So what else is there? Were they just body conditioning exercises? E.g. roc spreads its wings, conditioning biceps and shoulders?

[D_Glenn]

In most lines they don't have all 8 of the animals, just a few or so of the different animals palms and then supplemental ones. The fierce tiger comes out of the mountain is actually the 'low basin' turning posture, the normal turning posture is 'middle basin', and the spread the wings is the normal warm-up posture but also it's what probably became the watered down 'upper basin' posture where the hands would be held up higher while turning for striking down on the opponent. The "flower something" posture where the two wrists are held together is training one of the 8 strikes ('ba neng') the 'ban' (moving strike). They all should have simple 3 movement striking forms to change directions which would be practicing it's strikes on top of the conditioning.

In the main Cheng style Dragon pushing the millstone posture the front hand is developing the 'ban, kou, pi, and jin' -- moving, capturing, chopping (w/ heel of palm), and entering attacking methods. While the back hand is developing the 'tui, tou, dai, and ling' -- pushing, lifting, carrying, and leading attacking methods, so the main posture works all 8 of it's strikes and should be done everday. Each of those 8 also has a posture which you would hold one or two of depending on what strikes you're focusing on or as you progress through the art you change every year or so because the conditioning and transforming benefits from the postures stay with you for a while. The upper basin posture is a good warm-up and the lower basin posture is a good way to cool down.

There are also a lot more postures then just the 8. In Sun Lu Tangs book he mentions the 3 different postures for each of the 8 animals which are just variations of their main posture, on top of that you would have lower and upper basin postures and the 'ba neng' or 8 method postures for each animals.


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[edededed]

Not exactly iron palm... but there are multiple purposes in walking the circle, including training power, specific parts of the body, movement, and even qi! There are also variations in which to train these palms, including "basin," "frame," and so on.

Many lines of baguazhang actually have more than 8 palms (but they only talk about 8, because... you know, they like that number). Liu Bin's line apparently has 24 palms...

[yusuf]

duh, each one allow you to pick up a different category of women... mastering all 8 is more than enough for one lifetime

[Buddy]

But to master one....sublime.


From a happily married guy

[edededed]

We talkin' 'bout the same postures here?

Actually, come to think of it, the 8 postures even have an effect related to that...

[GrahamB]

Another perspective....

Chinese martial arts are full of really dull, boring, repetitive things you had to do for "3 years" to build your leg strength and prove you were going to stick around and weren't going to waste the Master's time once he started teaching you the real stuff.

The Japanese seemed to have shortened the process to an afternoon spent painting a fence. That's real progress. Wax on, wax off.

[Ian]

Another perspective....

Chinese martial arts are full of really dull, boring, repetitive things you had to do for "3 years" to build your leg strength and prove you were going to stick around and weren't going to waste the Master's time once he started teaching you the real stuff.

For real..

Not knocking long-term, repetitive practice, but I'm sure there are other things a teacher could teach in addition to "hold santi for 3 years".

[C.J.Wang]

The "3-year-horse stance" sort of requirements are part test of sincerity and part true skill building. If a student has the patience to go through the boring and painful process, and is given crucial pieces of information to tie all the "boring, repetitive" things together, eventually he will realize that all the hardwork is all well worth it.

[mrtoes]

duh, each one allow you to pick up a different category of women... mastering all 8 is more than enough for one lifetime

So which one is "free and easy and Scandinavian"?

[Alexander]

The "3-year-horse stance" sort of requirements are part test of sincerity and part true skill building. If a student has the patience to go through the boring and painful process, and is given crucial pieces of information to tie all the "boring, repetitive" things together, eventually he will realize that all the hardwork is all well worth it.

Right -- they had a purpose too.

So in your opinion, were these postures the same type of thing? Proving dedication while also getting proper structural alignments while moving?

[shawnsegler]

that and the posture holding also opens the body. It does a number of things simultaneously. It was devised to be both modular and synergystic. Wily chinese!!!

[C.J.Wang]

The "3-year-horse stance" sort of requirements are part test of sincerity and part true skill building. If a student has the patience to go through the boring and painful process, and is given crucial pieces of information to tie all the "boring, repetitive" things together, eventually he will realize that all the hardwork is all well worth it.

Right -- they had a purpose too.

So in your opinion, were these postures the same type of thing? Proving dedication while also getting proper structural alignments while moving?

Yes, and some schools of Bagua focus specifically on the relationships between each posture and its corresponding organ, body parts, and fighting tactics. Talk to forum member D_Glenn. He knows alot in this area.

It's also been my experience that, in martial arts, the secret to mastery often lies hidden within a style's most "boring, repetitive," and exhaustive exercises.

[alexsuffolk]

Which if you love the practice is no longer boring, but a wellspring of endless insight.

[C.J.Wang]

Yes, and it's addicting!