Wen county named the official birthplace of TJQ

[Bhassler]

1. Point out one technical thing I said about IMA that is wrong. for my curiosity sake

You haven't said anything substantive about IMA at all-- all you've done is imply that everyone else but you is either an asshole or an ignoramus. So as you pack up your keyboard and continue on your journey across the interweb, you can either conclude that everyone else is behaving poorly or you can decide that the problem lies with yourself. Which seems more likely?

[Daniel]

Chris,

I was delighted to learn that you are working on preparing Bagua fighters for MMA. I thought very high of you. What had i done to offend you personally? Now i think your solution is better. Rather than "hua jin", I probably should consider leaving this borad with "mud stepping". Since you are a "great old one" and Bagua Master or GM, here is my humble request to you specifically:
1. Point out one technical thing I said about IMA that is wrong. for my curiosity sake
2. Allow me one more post to respond before I walk out this board.
No offense taken. Is it fair?

Justincasea

I´ve always found luo huxu to be a very good phrase to have in one´s vocabulary. I don´t have chinese on my computer, but since I´m not only reasonably educated but even erudite, I can translate it on the spot: pulling the tiger´s whiskers.




D.

Sarcasm. Oh yeah, like that´ll work.

[justincasea]

If no one understanding my post, I must be out of my mind. With respect to all of you, including Chris, I pack and leave. Bye to you all. "Bao Hu gui shan"

Justincasea

[DeusTrismegistus]

Justincasea, a few words of advice as you explore the intarwebs.

1) Whatever you say, someone will argue with you.
2) You will never convince anyone on the internet of anything (at least not often enough to be mentionable).
3) If you think you can tell people how it is, regarding anything, expect what happened here to happen everywhere (and I even warned you).
4) If you let any of this bother you, thats your problem.

Good Luck

[Chris McKinley]

Justincasea,

RE: "What had i done to offend you personally?". You haven't. You have simply acted, as Omar accurately characterized it, as an arrogant prick to the rest of the readers on this thread. You have leveled criticisms as objective and factual without any corroborating evidence whatsoever. You have also responded to legitimate questions regarding your credibility to make such proclamations not with any relevant information, but with sarcastic smart-ass dismissals.

Frankly, there's no reason why any of us should believe you are anything but a rookie punk teenager with no training at all, as opposed to the superior source of accurate and authoritative information you claim for yourself. You are directly contradicting people whose backgrounds and knowledge levels are well-known as well as long-held orthodoxy which is no longer seriously questioned. There's nothing wrong with that in and of itself, but strangely, you provide no significant objective evidence whatsoever to support your claim, nor even any reason why you should be lent credibility on the issue by anyone.

Put simply, you're an unknown quantity who won't reveal any information about yourself, your background or your training which might give a reader any reason to believe you instead of what is commonly known about the issues.

RE: "Since you are a "great old one" and Bagua Master or GM, here is my humble request to you specifically...". More sarcastic smartass bullshit. Everyone here knows I've never claimed to be a master of any damn thing at all, nevermind Baguazhang. However, people do know who I am. Some agree with me and some don't, but anytime I put forth an argument, especially one which challenges orthodoxy, I provide copious reasoning to back up my claim. I also don't hide who I am, what my background is, nor why anyone might wish to believe me if they choose.

You have ignored repeated advice to pay better attention to your presentation on what is an English language discussion board. Most recently, Bhassler nicely offered very good advice in this regard. If you have legitimate communication difficulties due to a language barrier, you will find this board sympathetic and understanding. In fact, if you are simply having a difficulty expressing yourself and do not mean to come across as both arrogant and dismissively sarcastic, I promise that I will try to help you with your phrasing should you choose to accept such help. Other posters might also be equally willing to help you.

Before that can happen, though, you will have to understand and acknowledge how your current presentation is problematic and is causing those with whom you are discussing this thread to see you as purposefully refusing to share any relevant information about yourself and causes you to come across as disrespectful of your fellow posters. There's no reason for you to leave if you are sincerely wanting to come across as acting in goodwill. You have been offered help. If you simply want to come across as an arrogant prick, a smartass, or even as a petty troll, that's your choice, but don't expect much of a welcome around here. It's your choice.

[taiwandeutscher]

...it´s the darndest thing...the link doesn´t seem to show. I´ll try again. Maybe Mr. Justincasea can´t see it the country he´s in. I´ll have to ask the Mods. They usually respond better to questions than commands, I find.

http://wuyuan.de/en/wude/index.html


D.

Sarcasm. Oh yeah, like that´ll work.

In any case, that site and it's people, I wouldn't quote to prove anything.
Just my 2 cents.

[taiwandeutscher]

If no one understanding my post, I must be out of my mind. With respect to all of you, including Chris, I pack and leave. Bye to you all. "Bao Hu gui shan"

Justincasea

Yes, I can see your points. But you should back them up calmly, for the Western experts. I feel you are Chinese and hate it that non-Chinese don't believe you on your own culture?

To all: It hasn't been too bad, has it?. As a non-native English writer myself, it's not always easy to express what we mean. I would like to hear from justincasea again.

As for the Wen county as brithplace of TJQ: Has the plakate at Chenjiagou been removed, then? And still, I'm sure there are many Chinese who don't accept such government sponsored labels.

[Daniel]

...it´s the darndest thing...the link doesn´t seem to show. I´ll try again. Maybe Mr. Justincasea can´t see it the country he´s in. I´ll have to ask the Mods. They usually respond better to questions than commands, I find.

http://wuyuan.de/en/wude/index.html


D.

Sarcasm. Oh yeah, like that´ll work.

In any case, that site and it's people, I wouldn't quote to prove anything.
Just my 2 cents.

The good part about that link is that it´s a fairly decent intro to the concept of wude. Many practitioners today really don´t seem to even know it exists. I have found this link to be an OK and easy intro to grasp the idea, and possibly even how much it means. But if you have another one that´s better, please post it. I´ll happily use another and put it on my website if it´s more useful.


D.

Sarcasm. Oh yeah, like that´ll work.

[justincasea]

taiwandeutscher , john, count, DeusTrismegistus, martialartist,..:

Thank you for being so kind. The whole thing was mostly due to misunderstanding and miscommunications. First, I do not know the people here. My limited pre-experience with internet forum was at a forum for three days where no one used real identity five years ago. So manner was an issue, but content was. Here at RSF, there are people whose Ids are real. I should have been more sensitive and careful. I got a bad start with this place until someone kindly alerted me. Second, they do not know me. It is commonly believed in American culture that one is only as good as he can show (mostly talk and dress up). If I did not list some impressive names of GM or some prestigious MA in my resume, whatever I said did not have any credibility. In fact, there are a few martial arts in China what are characterized as “hei men” (dark door). None of the disciples would talk about MA in any public places. Moreover, using your sifu’s credit card is a no-no practice in serious folk martial artist community in China. Third, I forget to remind myself that I am on internet forum, a place any one is entitled to his opinion and his voice. I probably should have be more patient and be selective in discussion topics and persons involved in the discussion.
As I had stated before, I was here to have fun, not to look for students or teachers. Now I am going to leave some friends behind. I would like to clarify a few things:
(1) I Since I won be at this forum any longer, here is a brief introduction of myself. I had learnt CMA since I as a child, following lineages of “Tong Bei King” Zhang Che, “Drunken Devil” Zhang San, Zhang Zi Jiang (president of Nanking Guoshu Guan), Weitou men from two martial monks of Shaolin who survived from Boxer Movement, and finally Yang Taiji (15 months +14 days) from someone who does not want to be known to the public. Along the way, I do not count six months of chen taiji, eight months of Bugua, one months of Xingyi five elements.
(2) I would like to apologize to John Wang one more time for being rude without knowing him and understanding what he said. In the thread of “tai ji question”, John posted: My teacher told me, "You may not appreciate Taiji right now but you will someday when you get old". I thought he meant Tai Chi is nothing more than a soft, gentle for senior citizens. Later I realized he probably meant 观耄耋御众之形，快何能…为i.e tai chi can be a good supplement to Shuaijiao as one ages. I misunderstood John because I have bias against people who promote “fake taiji” as taiji exercise or fake CMA in general. I hope he would forgive me.
(3) Double weight is a very very BTDT. However, unless someone has a real experience of IMA, whatever he said or heard does not mean anything- simply put: he cannot understand. I am not going to go there anymore. ALL I want to do is to clarify one thing. IT IS NOT A FAULT TO BE DOUBLE WEIGHTED IF YOU DO External MA. If one does shuaijiao, as John Wang’s photos show, how can he/she NOT to be double-weighted? He/she should be correctly double weighted. When I pointed this out, many thought I was attacking John, it was not true. It was because I understand DW different from those who quickly came to defend John. I believe John understood what I meant.
(4) Is this a Wude problem as Daniel seems to suggest? I think if we have “wu” first then we can put “de” under appropriate context.
Ciao, my friends, continue to have fun with IMA. May All Beings BE Happy!
J.

[taiwandeutscher]

...it´s the darndest thing...the link doesn´t seem to show. I´ll try again. Maybe Mr. Justincasea can´t see it the country he´s in. I´ll have to ask the Mods. They usually respond better to questions than commands, I find.

http://wuyuan.de/en/wude/index.html


D.

Sarcasm. Oh yeah, like that´ll work.

In any case, that site and it's people, I wouldn't quote to prove anything.
Just my 2 cents.

The good part about that link is that it´s a fairly decent intro to the concept of wude. Many practitioners today really don´t seem to even know it exists. I have found this link to be an OK and easy intro to grasp the idea, and possibly even how much it means. But if you have another one that´s better, please post it. I´ll happily use another and put it on my website if it´s more useful.


D.

Sarcasm. Oh yeah, like that´ll work.

Daniel, the site might be a nice read, but I'm sure you could do a much better version, with all your background and knowledge, seriously. Most of all, it seems to me that you could back-up, what you would write through practiced Wude, according your appearance here, which I very much appreciate.
Many schools and sites talk about Wude, but then you realize that they are in for government recognition, for position, power and for money. Then I find it ... strange to talk on such topics.

[bailewen]

Yes, I can see your points. But you should back them up calmly, for the Western experts. I feel you are Chinese and hate it that non-Chinese don't believe you on your own culture?

Actually, he could back them up in any manner at all and it would be better. Being Chinese does not give him a free pass to expertise on Chinese martial arts or Chinese history. I have lost count of how many Chinese people I have met who don't know their head from their asshole when it comes to kung fu. Martial arts history and culture is not transmitted genetically. He's a rank beginner.

With just "Yang Taiji (15 months +14 days) ...six months of chen taiji, eight months of Bugua, one months of Xingyi five elements." all together, not even 3 years of IMA training, he ia in no position to be talking down to hardly anyone here about what double weighting means or any other Taiji specific concept. His explanation of the classics is no more valid than anyone elses. It's hard for me to rant about this because he is representative of a particular kind of uneducated peasant worldview that I have to deal with out here on a daily basis. It's obnoxious and demeaning in person and I spotted it right off the bat here on the web. Within 2 or 3 posts I had him pegged as a rank begginer with 4 or 5 years experience tops. It took me another day or two to realize he was Chinese. I picked that up from his posting style. I've seen that kind of pompous blowhard on the Chinese boards as well, not the martial arts boards, just the Chinese boards in general.

Blech. I could go on but I hate it when the posts get too long.

[bailewen]

I think that both of these lines are parallel, in that they suggest extraordinary scenarios in which the weak overcomes the strong, which contrast with the previously described situation of other martial arts that rely on natural talent and strength, but that's just an initial impression...

edit: i think the parallelism is more obvious when you look closer: 察 and 观 as the main verbs, 句 and 形 as object, and then the two rhetorical comments - 显非力胜 "obviously it is not a victory of strength" and 快何能为 "how can such speed be possible"

anyway, sorry to butt in

I asked Shifu about it today. I think you nailed it. I was getting too abstract with 快何能为. It means just what it looks like it means. It means that the old dudes are incredibly fast. One new thing I picked up though is that 耄耋 in this context is more special than just "really old martial artists". The way he described it, it was like 耄耋 were like the old kung fu masters from the movies. Guys in their 80's or 90's where you maybe met only one or two in a lifetime. The kind of people you feel incredibly lucky to have ever encountered. More than simply people who had practiced for many decades. I thought his description was kind of exciting. He said that last phrase means that when you watch one of those old masters at work dealing with a whole pack of youngsters, it's over in a flash. Bangbangbang....game over.

[Daniel]

Daniel, the site might be a nice read, but I'm sure you could do a much better version, with all your background and knowledge, seriously. Most of all, it seems to me that you could back-up, what you would write through practiced Wude, according your appearance here, which I very much appreciate.
Many schools and sites talk about Wude, but then you realize that they are in for government recognition, for position, power and for money. Then I find it ... strange to talk on such topics.

Sorry, TD, could you clarify?


D.

Sarcasm. Oh yeah, like that´ll work.

[josh]

I asked Shifu about it today. I think you nailed it. I was getting too abstract with 快何能为. It means just what it looks like it means. It means that the old dudes are incredibly fast. One new thing I picked up though is that 耄耋 in this context is more special than just "really old martial artists". The way he described it, it was like 耄耋 were like the old kung fu masters from the movies. Guys in their 80's or 90's where you maybe met only one or two in a lifetime. The kind of people you feel incredibly lucky to have ever encountered. More than simply people who had practiced for many decades. I thought his description was kind of exciting. He said that last phrase means that when you watch one of those old masters at work dealing with a whole pack of youngsters, it's over in a flash. Bangbangbang....game over.

cool! that is basically the image that popped into my head when i read that line... it's nice to get an explanation from someone who is so much closer to the text, thanks

[taiwandeutscher]

Yes, I can see your points. But you should back them up calmly, for the Western experts. I feel you are Chinese and hate it that non-Chinese don't believe you on your own culture?

Actually, he could back them up in any manner at all and it would be better. Being Chinese does not give him a free pass to expertise on Chinese martial arts or Chinese history. I have lost count of how many Chinese people I have met who don't know their head from their asshole when it comes to kung fu. Martial arts history and culture is not transmitted genetically. He's a rank beginner.

With just "Yang Taiji (15 months +14 days) ...six months of chen taiji, eight months of Bugua, one months of Xingyi five elements." all together, not even 3 years of IMA training, he ia in no position to be talking down to hardly anyone here about what double weighting means or any other Taiji specific concept. His explanation of the classics is no more valid than anyone elses. It's hard for me to rant about this because he is representative of a particular kind of uneducated peasant worldview that I have to deal with out here on a daily basis. It's obnoxious and demeaning in person and I spotted it right off the bat here on the web. Within 2 or 3 posts I had him pegged as a rank begginer with 4 or 5 years experience tops. It took me another day or two to realize he was Chinese. I picked that up from his posting style. I've seen that kind of pompous blowhard on the Chinese boards as well, not the martial arts boards, just the Chinese boards in general.

Blech. I could go on but I hate it when the posts get too long.

Yes, Omar, I know what you are talking of, after learning CMA in the greater China area for some 17 years. But let's be more tolerant than the unexperienced youngsters and beginners. They might learn a thing or 2 from experienced and serious practitioners and researchers and could understand what you say, that the heritage of CMA nowadays lays not only with the modern Chinese and their often ridiculous state controlled organisations like cited on the source Daniel quoted (my words). I mean the whole duan system, their testing and hirarchical representation hype, with only face, reputation and money in mind, talking on Wude rather big.

Here in Taiwan, it happens to me often: Training in the park, some retired 60 yrs old female hobbyist telling me about the finer points or the arts, lol. I have to gulp and swallow hard, but I always try to stay polite and and thank everybody for their goodwill advice, asked for or not, valuable or not.

For such and the like reasons, I also declined an offer to teach a big group of hobbyist (I see my self as one, too), instead I stay a student as long as I live here, in order to respect the maybe unresonable feelings of the Chinese, automatically loosing face, being taught something Chinese by a bignouse.

On a worldwide site like here, I also like to stay moderate and tolerant, even if it means to read some unfounded beginner's talk. Diversity is what I like, as many points of fiew as possible. And banning socalled trolls just does not fit with my understanding of an open forum.

Thank you!