Well that was a wake up call!

[AllanF]

Just got back from practice and i have to say it was not a good day at the office!

Was practicing with my usual PHs partner and not only could i do nothing to him but i was throw on my back/front 4 times!

So it is back to the drawing board in regard to my training. The only positive was that i noticed if i act the moment we make contact then i can move him around no problem (eg Lu etc) but not throw him and that i can enter his guard easily to strike but toady's PH as about shuai jiao and qinna not striking. If i give him an inch he'll take a yard, and being heavier than me by around 20kgs (44lbs) and taller than me by 5 inches (12cm) i find it difficult to deal with when comes in using a lot of power. However i am not making that an excuse, merely using it to illustrate that i have a hell of a long way to go in my training and at the moment i as i clearly can't deal with people bigger and stronger than me, i may as well have a sign around my neck saying only good for fighting women and children.

All in all quite a depressing day!

[cerebus]

Just investing in loss. Sometimes to lose is to win...

[fuga]

Use the bad day to figure out what you need to focus on with your training. When holes in my game are exposed, it gives me a training focus for the next month or so.

-pete

[Pat]

I hear ya! I get put in that place quite a bit!

The most bitter pill I swallow is my ego.

[taiwandeutscher]

Yeah, most of us lighter weights have such experiences. Just wonder when or whether ever 20 kg won't make that difference, anymore.
Really only longtime investment in loss?
Sometimes I doubt it, on other days, there is light at the end of the tunnel!

[Michael]

On the bright side, fighting women and children is still a viable skill. You could always be a bouncer at Disneyland, LOL. I did PH for the first time a couple of weeks ago and it wasn't pretty, but I did learn a lot. I always tell my English students mistakes are part of getting better.

[Andy_S]

It is important to practice with people who are better than you of you will never advance, but sometimes it is also a good idea to practice with those who are not...this way you can how your skills have developed. Too much either way is probably not ideal: bit of yin, touch of yang.

[Chris McKinley]

AllanF,

RE: "The only positive was that i noticed if i act the moment we make contact then i can move him around no problem (eg Lu etc) but not throw him and that i can enter his guard easily to strike but toady's PH as about shuai jiao and qinna not striking.". If you'll let it be, this is also a great wake-up call regarding both shuai jiao and qinna as used in a real fight. As I'm constantly harping on my students....Never try to joint-lock an undiminished opponent.

The same can often be said of throws and takedowns as well. Attempting to do so gives him maximum use of his size and strength advantages over you while he's still fresh, clear-headed and probably has at least one hand free. That's a recipe for disaster. People are surprisingly easier to lock or throw once they've had their bell rung or their instep crushed.

[GrahamB]

Hi Allan,

I think all the relevant points have been made on this thread already, but just to summarize: invest in loss (until you learn to beat them, then bask in glory ) and remember that if you attempt to grapple a bigger guy they have a huge advantage over you simply because of weight and leverage, you need to be smarter and bide your time and like Chris says - you need to hurt them in some way to break their structure first - that usually does the trick.

Welcome back to the drawing board, I'm on the first bench on your left

G

[DeusTrismegistus]

Ok a few things.

First while getting schooled at practice sucks, it shouldn't make you have a "bad day". Its practice. Its not important if you throw him or he throws you whats important is that you worked on something and are making progress. A lot of times to learn to use a specific skill or tech you have to just work on that and get beat while you focus on something you aren't good at. People get comfortable with their skills and techs that work and instead of working on weaknesses they just rely on the things they are already good at to win, which they will win more often but they won't learn as much.

Which brings me to my second point. Bigger guys tend to rely on strength to succeed. I am guilty of this myself. Instead of building new skill they just use muscle. Which works great until you come up to someone bigger and stronger. Little guys almost have an advantage in the IMA because you HAVE to get it right for it to work at all. You don't have a fall back. So the thing about relying on strength is that it can be exploited by someone who knows what they are doing. Easier said than done though. I would use the experience to pick something to focus on that will help you learn to do just that.

[Ralteria]

I actually think this is one of the advantages of being smaller (not on the large size by any means on this side of the computer). You're never in much of situation where you can kid yourself into trying to overpower an opponent.

I'm contanstly pushing with people who are larger than me, sometimes by at least a 100lbs and almost a full foot taller. It can really help you figure out how to neutralize and get on the inside of an opponent to give you the opening you need to give them a wake up call. If you're small you don't get a second chance. I had this happen to me last week and was on the floor several times. In yeilding and giving up the chance to force your opponent down you can open up alot of striking opportunities.



Since we've recently started adding to our push hands with some heavier palm slaps and qinna (boy was this a sigh of relief), I've found that as a small and more slippery person, I do have advantages. When a larger opponent comes in for the push/throw it's easier to neutralize and slip inside when they think you are on the way down. It can be surprising for someone when they are full force into a push, you've "touched" them two or three times, and they've lost their contact point.


On an interesting point, because of my size, my instructor is allowing me to take a follow step forward to "Fa" when we do fixed step tuishou b/c most everyone in the class is so much larger than me. Full arm length of someone who is 6'2'' is a large hurdle for me in my 5'5''ness. Much hard to find the center when you can't REACH the center .

Of course, if you look to your left on that bench that Graham was talking about, you'll see me catching my breath

Small MA'ers unite!

[Mut]

don't worry Allen... your opponent surely was not using tai chi so it does not count

[Haoran]

As a Bagua student I would occasionally visit the Wu Taiji players in People's park in Shanghai and try some of the players there (studied Wu before in the states). Well, these people tossed me around like a rag doll. I couldn't affect any of them at all. Definately a lot of special stuff out there.

[Interloper]

Just got back from practice and i have to say it was not a good day at the office!

Was practicing with my usual PHs partner and not only could i do nothing to him but i was throw on my back/front 4 times!

So it is back to the drawing board in regard to my training. The only positive was that i noticed if i act the moment we make contact then i can move him around no problem (eg Lu etc) but not throw him and that i can enter his guard easily to strike but toady's PH as about shuai jiao and qinna not striking. If i give him an inch he'll take a yard, and being heavier than me by around 20kgs (44lbs) and taller than me by 5 inches (12cm) i find it difficult to deal with when comes in using a lot of power. However i am not making that an excuse, merely using it to illustrate that i have a hell of a long way to go in my training and at the moment i as i clearly can't deal with people bigger and stronger than me, i may as well have a sign around my neck saying only good for fighting women and children.

All in all quite a depressing day!

Maybe your PH partner had just had a power jump in his skills, you know? It's not always About You.
As for saying "only good for figthing women and children," I'll grant you the children, but don't underestimate some of the women.

[AllanF]

Taiji or any IMA i think for that matter can be a truly frustrating thing, just when you think you are getting it you find out you're not!
Good points made by all. And something i had thought to myself but being a competitive little shit sometimes find it a little difficult to act upon. However it has given me a great deal to think about in terms of my own training and also on how to deal with bigger people.

Maybe your PH partner had just had a power jump in his skills, you know? It's not always About You.
As for saying "only good for figthing women and children," I'll grant you the children, but don't underestimate some of the women.

For me it is not about if he has had a power jump in his skills as if my own skill is good then it shouldn't matter but the case was clearly that i couldn't deal with his strength. (ie. my skill wasn't good enough) As for women and children, i meant to add that should be only women who are smaller and weaker than me...even then...

Unfortunately i also seem to have aggravated a knee injury in the process of yesterday's tui shou, bloody ligaments, which my good Dr wife has told me means no practice for some time. However it was my own fault as my teacher had told my partner about my knee injury but as i don't like excuses i said it was fine. Only myself to blame.