Two way stretch

Discussion on the three big Chinese internals, Yiquan, Bajiquan, Piguazhang and other similar styles.

Two way stretch

Postby GrahamB on Thu Sep 03, 2009 8:22 am

Just read this and thought it was cool and definitely related to IMA :)

"When the head pivots forward the transfer of weight allows the whole spine to lengthen. Gravity draws the feet, legs and pelvis in the opposite direction. This lengthening up and down in opposite directions creates the antagonistic pulls in the body. Provided that the wish to lengthen and not collapse persists, this two-way stretch action will continue. When gravity is used effectively, the entire muscular system (at its full length) allows for the most efficient working of the body , and follows the natural rules of dynamic design".

Image

Image

Image
One does not simply post on RSF.
The Tai Chi Notebook
User avatar
GrahamB
Great Old One
 
Posts: 13605
Joined: Fri May 02, 2008 3:30 pm

Re: Two way stretch

Postby edededed on Thu Sep 03, 2009 5:48 pm

Just glancing at the picture, I thought it was a comparison between the postures of women and men! (But then I saw the boob ;D )
User avatar
edededed
Great Old One
 
Posts: 4130
Joined: Tue May 13, 2008 12:21 am

Re: Two way stretch

Postby johnwang on Thu Sep 03, 2009 6:09 pm

In order to utilize the "gravity", we will need to move our gravity center to be outside of our base and then move our base to be under our gravity center again. This kind of destroy balance, regain balance process (dynamic rooting) will need to be repeated over and over. The ability to do so won't be able to obtain from ZZ (static rooting) only.
Last edited by johnwang on Thu Sep 03, 2009 6:13 pm, edited 4 times in total.
Crow weep in the dark. Tide bellow in the north wind. How lonesome the world.
User avatar
johnwang
Great Old One
 
Posts: 10333
Joined: Tue May 13, 2008 5:26 pm

Re: Two way stretch

Postby GrahamB on Thu Sep 03, 2009 7:09 pm

johnwang wrote:In order to utilize the "gravity", we will need to move our gravity center to be outside of our base and then move our base to be under our gravity center again. This kind of destroy balance, regain balance process (dynamic rooting) will need to be repeated over and over. The ability to do so won't be able to obtain from ZZ (static rooting) only.


Hi John,

Is there a good solo exercise for that?

G
One does not simply post on RSF.
The Tai Chi Notebook
User avatar
GrahamB
Great Old One
 
Posts: 13605
Joined: Fri May 02, 2008 3:30 pm

Re: Two way stretch

Postby johnwang on Thu Sep 03, 2009 8:14 pm

You can see the difference between this 2 drills:

http://johnswang.com/SC_root.wmv
http://johnswang.com/SC_no_root.wmv

If you want to apply this application:

http://johnswang.com/lost_root.wmv

then you will find the 2nd drill will help you better to achieve your goal.
Last edited by johnwang on Thu Sep 03, 2009 8:30 pm, edited 4 times in total.
Crow weep in the dark. Tide bellow in the north wind. How lonesome the world.
User avatar
johnwang
Great Old One
 
Posts: 10333
Joined: Tue May 13, 2008 5:26 pm

Re: Two way stretch

Postby I-mon on Thu Sep 03, 2009 9:48 pm

GrahamB wrote:
johnwang wrote:In order to utilize the "gravity", we will need to move our gravity center to be outside of our base and then move our base to be under our gravity center again. This kind of destroy balance, regain balance process (dynamic rooting) will need to be repeated over and over. The ability to do so won't be able to obtain from ZZ (static rooting) only.


Hi John,

Is there a good solo exercise for that?

G


learned a great one from some parkour guys:

stand on one leg, press the heel off the ground, move your arms and legs about so that you lose your balance and get it back again straight away and keep doing this for a few minutes. If it's really easy then you're either not losing your balance enough, or you can try with your eyes closed. try to actively use the whole area around yongquan including the toes and base of toes, big toe, little toe.

'tis an exercise in proprioception.
User avatar
I-mon
Great Old One
 
Posts: 2936
Joined: Tue May 13, 2008 12:19 am
Location: Australia

Re: Two way stretch

Postby bailewen on Fri Sep 04, 2009 4:23 am

'tis an exercise in proprioception.


'tis also called "yanzi zuan tian" (swallow soars into the sky).

http://lh5.ggpht.com/__HKVaUYUxJg/SqD2Q ... s512/3.jpg
Image

A little secret is that this photo only shows stage one of the exercise. It's easier to pose for a photo that way. Eventually you are supposed to lift one of the feet off the ground in that post. Lift the opposite side from whichever hand is up high. If you can stand on just the ball of one foot while in the pose in that picture and hold it for more than 5 or 6 seconds, you are doing pretty good. If you can do it with your eyes closed you are seriously kicking ass. Just golden rooster with the foot flat is hard enough with the eyes closed. I can't imagine this pose that way. I can barely do it with my eyes open.
Click here for my Baji Leitai clip.
www.xiangwuhui.com

p.s. the name is pronounced "buy le when"
User avatar
bailewen
Great Old One
 
Posts: 4895
Joined: Tue May 13, 2008 11:20 am
Location: Xi'an - China

Re: Two way stretch

Postby GrahamB on Fri Sep 04, 2009 6:27 am

Omar (bailewen) wrote:
'tis an exercise in proprioception.


'tis also called "yanzi zuan tian" (swallow soars into the sky).

http://lh5.ggpht.com/__HKVaUYUxJg/SqD2Q ... s512/3.jpg
Image

A little secret is that this photo only shows stage one of the exercise. It's easier to pose for a photo that way. Eventually you are supposed to lift one of the feet off the ground in that post. Lift the opposite side from whichever hand is up high. If you can stand on just the ball of one foot while in the pose in that picture and hold it for more than 5 or 6 seconds, you are doing pretty good. If you can do it with your eyes closed you are seriously kicking ass. Just golden rooster with the foot flat is hard enough with the eyes closed. I can't imagine this pose that way. I can barely do it with my eyes open.


Ok that sounds like a challenge - I just love those. Watch this space.... :)
Last edited by GrahamB on Fri Sep 04, 2009 6:31 am, edited 2 times in total.
One does not simply post on RSF.
The Tai Chi Notebook
User avatar
GrahamB
Great Old One
 
Posts: 13605
Joined: Fri May 02, 2008 3:30 pm

Re: Two way stretch

Postby GrahamB on Sat Sep 05, 2009 2:45 am

Ok, just tried it. It's pretty darn impossible with eyes closed (like most one legged postures). I can pretty much stand there for a minute on one leg though - the limiting factor is pain in the sole of the foot - hurst like a bitch! So, I got bored and started to mix it up a bit and do different things with the raised leg - that's quite fun since you need to compensate for the weight change - here's a video of me fucking up and falling over ;D

One does not simply post on RSF.
The Tai Chi Notebook
User avatar
GrahamB
Great Old One
 
Posts: 13605
Joined: Fri May 02, 2008 3:30 pm

Re: Two way stretch

Postby bailewen on Sat Sep 05, 2009 4:18 am

Pretty good.

I think you may find it more challenging if, rather than lifting the leg out front, you keep the leg hanging down close to the other one. Don't raise your foot out. The idea is to keep your center of gravity narrow. When you spread out to the sides it gets a little bit easier. The next correction would be to raise up the lower hand a bit to keep it pointed at the higher elbow. Technically this is a variation on a piercing palm.

Still pretty good though. It took me several months before I could hold it that long regardless of hand and leg placement.

Since you can hold it to the point where it's essentially the small muscles of the foot that give out, the thing to focus on at that point is the stretch. Reach really as high as possible with the upper arm. Reach up and also twist the upper arm so that it supinates and brings the elbows in towards your centerline. Again, narrowing your profile increased the difficulty and also, this is a bagua jibengong so, you know, stretching and twisting. Same kind of twist for the lower arm. Palm twists in towards yourself though.

I'm pretty convinced this is really good for your arches. By the way you shook out your foot at the end I can tell you were feeling it in there. I wouldn't label it "epic fail" though. Pretty damn good IMO.
Click here for my Baji Leitai clip.
www.xiangwuhui.com

p.s. the name is pronounced "buy le when"
User avatar
bailewen
Great Old One
 
Posts: 4895
Joined: Tue May 13, 2008 11:20 am
Location: Xi'an - China

Re: Two way stretch

Postby GrahamB on Sat Sep 05, 2009 4:41 am

Thanks Omar - yep- you can really feel it in the arches, so it's working something there majorly - hurts a lot more when you stick your leg out actually. b.t.w. what is this? - is this a Bagua exercise? (edit - sorry, I see you've already answered that)

I'm cheating really, because I'm using a skill I picked up in our Tai Chi called 'body lightness' - makes this kind of thing easier.

The lower hand - does it cross the centre-line or stay on it?

I shall refine..... :)
Last edited by GrahamB on Sat Sep 05, 2009 5:26 am, edited 3 times in total.
One does not simply post on RSF.
The Tai Chi Notebook
User avatar
GrahamB
Great Old One
 
Posts: 13605
Joined: Fri May 02, 2008 3:30 pm

Re: Two way stretch

Postby Ian on Sat Sep 05, 2009 6:45 am

Graham, are you standing on the ball of your foot?
Ian

 

Re: Two way stretch

Postby GrahamB on Sat Sep 05, 2009 7:19 am

Ian wrote:Graham, are you standing on the ball of your foot?


I am - it doesn't look like it though does it. I think that it's because when you put all your weight on one leg the heel has to be lower than when you have your weight on both legs, but I am most definitely on the ball of my foot. I'll do another video soon with Omar's suggestions in.
One does not simply post on RSF.
The Tai Chi Notebook
User avatar
GrahamB
Great Old One
 
Posts: 13605
Joined: Fri May 02, 2008 3:30 pm

Re: Two way stretch

Postby bailewen on Sat Sep 05, 2009 7:46 am

Yeah. At first I thought he looked flat foot as well but I recognize the way his knee was wobbling. That doesn't happen when you let the heel down.

The lower hand - does it cross the centre-line or stay on it?


Um...roughly on it. I was told that the image is sort of like you are being lifted into the sky by a big invisible rope so my tendency is to imagine both hands sort of clinging to that rope.

- hurts a lot more when you stick your leg out actually.

There's another similar exercise where both hands and the free foot are held out in front so I think the point of this one is a little different. Incidentally, I notice that when you practice "golden rooster" with the eyes closed, just flat foot, eventually it's the same sort of soreness that limits you. At first it's just balance. Then once you get the balance down it starts becoming weird little foot muscles that limit you.

p.s. Technically not a bagua exercise but a "baguataiji" exercise. This is one of the movements of the taiji form from Wu Junshan but I happen to know that the general idea was imported directly from bagua. It is an example of a bagua exercise that was modified and imported into a taiji form.
Last edited by bailewen on Sat Sep 05, 2009 8:33 am, edited 1 time in total.
Click here for my Baji Leitai clip.
www.xiangwuhui.com

p.s. the name is pronounced "buy le when"
User avatar
bailewen
Great Old One
 
Posts: 4895
Joined: Tue May 13, 2008 11:20 am
Location: Xi'an - China

Re: Two way stretch

Postby ppscat on Sun Sep 06, 2009 11:27 am

Omar, hips should stay open or close? If the latter, it's much easier.
User avatar
ppscat
Anjing
 
Posts: 228
Joined: Wed May 14, 2008 1:30 pm

Next

Return to Xingyiquan - Baguazhang - Taijiquan

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 103 guests