fa-jing: "taiji has little of it, even chen style"

[neijia_boxer]

there is a blog i enjoy to visit, the guy is quite smart,and can write brilliantly, but always seems to throw a controversial statement somewhere in the writings. He said:

"Training for explosive power is the last thing that one can train in push hands as it requires a strong root, relaxed smooth movements, and the ability to extend power quickly. In order to pull this off successfully one also has to be able to conceal any intent to attack. Although, it is the last thing that one likely will become proficient in, once all of the prerequisites are met, it is perhaps the easiest to practice. I recommend learning Xing-yi for fire (fa-jing) practice as Taiji has little of it, even in Chen Style."

Having studied Xingyi and chen style respectively, i would think that Chen style has the best expression of fajin in both the 1st routine and 2nd routines of either old or new styles. Xingyi may have great fajing and explosive power as well, but i wouldnt say Xingyi has more nor chen doesnt have enough.

Chen zhen lei, Chen xiao wang and Ren guan yi, all have very powerful fajin, some of the xingyi people I know and worked with just cant compare.

I'd like to hear some other opinions of people who have studied both Chen and Xingyi.

[Haoran]

I've had just a little Chen Taiji exposure but my Bagua teacher, who's teacher before learning Bagua was a Chen master, showed me this:



But looking at this from a balanced perspective I don't think it's healthy for too much Fajing.. Balance Yin and Yang. We can't go at 110 mph all the time.

[Methods]

Agreed!
My Dragon style hs Fajing in absolutely every move, some softer some harder but its always there and it tears you a new one when you practice for hours at a time.
I know some really nice Taoist KF that uses much Fajing, but its usually balanced real nice, matter of fact there are a few classics that explaine how fajin should be practiced softly on a regular basis than hard, even when the style only incorporates the harder fajing's.

[Dmitri]

Haven't studied (not formally anyway) Chen or XY, but Yang taiji has plenty of fajin and it looks a helluva lot like XY, IMHO.

[Ian]

some chen fajin





wouldn't use this stuff without significant alteration, though.

[Interloper]

It's an often-told truth that various arts may have the training methods within their original curriculum, but that those methods can get lost, incompletely transmitted or incompetently transmitted so that entire lineages of practitioners are bereft of "the goods." Or, within a particular school where the methods are properly retained and taught, there are individuals who, for whatever reasons, fail to learn and understand those methods. They go out into the world as the worst-possible "ambassadors" of their school, teacher and art, and proceed to demonstrate and teach their lack of knowledge.

Then you see men such as Liu Cheng-De and a number of other longtime Chen stylists, and you see the inherent power in them which they, through relentless correct training, extracted from the vehicle that is Chen taiji.

That's why I don't get excited about "controversial" comments such as the one about Chen taiji.

[Bao]

I recommend learning Xing-yi for fire (fa-jing) practice as Taiji has little of it, even in Chen Style." .

I like this quote. It says a lot about what people think about Taiji.

But you know, fajing does not need to be evident to be there. More evident does not need more powerful.

[Jonny]

I liked those clips, Ian

[neijia_boxer]

Seems to be variety of different views here and thats a great thing. The article was on Taiji push hands styles so knowing that fajing is a taiji skill for push hands... I've been pushed far by soft taiji practitioners who know fajing. I've never been 'pushed' by a Xingyi person, Xingyi seems to be more of a striking art to me. I guess you can Pi Chuan, Beng, Pao, tsuan or Heng someone during push hands, can those striking methods be adapted to pushing with fajing?!?!?

I've never heard of a great xingyi push hands player.

[shawnsegler]

Isn't there a vid of that guy who taught Tim Cartmell hsing-i? LIang Ke quan??? Anyway there's a vid of him dominating some guy in push hands and the result is less the typical fa jing the guy into some big air, and more chin-na's and uncomfortable looking unbalancing techniques.

[Andy_S]

Really liked that Chen Taiji/Bagua hybrid. I wouldn't say the fajing there was excessive...look at some southern styles which are pow-pow-pow-pow. Here is a bit more of the same chap, showing some above average qinna:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tvU-pfVH ... re=related

[Haoran]

Really liked that Chen Taiji/Bagua hybrid. I wouldn't say the fajing there was excessive...look at some southern styles which are pow-pow-pow-pow. Here is a bit more of the same chap, showing some above average qinna:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tvU-pfVH ... re=related

Thanks Andy, what I like about that vid you just posted is at 1:15 when Ming Shifu demonstrates jing.

[Andy_S]

Haoran:

Is he your instructor? He looked damned good to me, and his student looked fairly fluid with the locks too.