A Note on Some history: Wang's pupil beat SunLuTang?

[Alexander]

I was reading through this e-book, and I honestly don't know the truth behind it or what. It looks like some of it could be biased, from what I gathered flipping through a bunch of the pages. Obviously it comes from a Yiquan perspective.

But at one point, page 12, it mentions that Zhao Daoxin ( a student of Wang Xiangzhai ) and Sun Lu Tang crossed hands, and sun was no match for him.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/7737884/Xingy ... -Xiangzhai

I'm not one to play the whole "This dude could totally kicked this other guy's ass", but I guess I didn't really realize that there existed a time when many of the "greats" lived in the same time period and interchanged ideas. Guess I should read my history!

[Juan]

I don't mean to sound like a dick, but really...who cares? If this is true, Sun Lu Tang lost a fight. So what? That makes him a fighter. The whole myth about people being "unbeatable" is just that...a myth.

[Bao]

I was reading through this e-book, and I honestly don't know the truth behind it or what. It looks like some of it could be biased, from what I gathered flipping through a bunch of the pages. Obviously it comes from a Yiquan perspective. But at one point, page 12, it mentions that Zhao Daoxin ( a student of Wang Xiangzhai ) and Sun Lu Tang crossed hands, and sun was no match for him.

LOL! I haven't heard that story before. But I can say that 1928 was very late in Suns life. He lived 1860-1933. This was five years before his death. There lies no honor in defeating an old man. But I don't believe that he would fight. He had stopped fighting a long time ago.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/7737884/Xingy ... -Xiangzhai

but I guess I didn't really realize that there existed a time when many of the "greats" lived in the same time period and interchanged ideas.

[eastpaw]

But I can say that 1928 was very late in Suns life. He lived 1860-1933. This was five years before his death. There lies no honor in defeating an old man. But I don't believe that he would fight. He had stopped fighting a long time ago.

A 68-year old IMA master would actually be one helluva scary dude.

[Bao]

But I can say that 1928 was very late in Suns life. He lived 1860-1933. This was five years before his death. There lies no honor in defeating an old man. But I don't believe that he would fight. He had stopped fighting a long time ago.

A 68-year old IMA master would actually be one helluva scary dude.

Well yeah, I know older and scary dudes. But this is China 1928

1. Sun Lutang had stopped practice for fighting.
2. In 1920s China 68 was a very old age.
3. At that time, young people was taught to gave the most respect for older people. To challenge someone that old would mean a loss of face.

[Doc Stier]

But I can say that 1928 was very late in Suns life. He lived 1860-1933. This was five years before his death. There lies no honor in defeating an old man. But I don't believe that he would fight. He had stopped fighting a long time ago.

A 68-year old IMA master would actually be one helluva scary dude.

Well yeah, I know older and scary dudes. But this is China 1928

1. Sun Lutang had stopped practice for fighting.
2. In 1920s China 68 was a very old age.
3. At that time, young people was taught to gave the most respect for older people. To challenge someone that old would mean a loss of face.

Quite so. My teacher says that account is a bogus story. A very lame and disrespectful attempt to posthumously elevate the reputation of Zhao Daoxin and his teacher, Wang Xiangzhai, at the expense of Sun Lu-Tang's reputation.

[Methods]

Tats horrible to do...

On a side note, my teacher was alive in 28' and quite scary in 92', matter of fact absolutely terrifying.

[eastpaw]

My teacher says that account is a bogus story. A very lame and disrespectful attempt to posthumously elevate the reputation of Zhao Daoxin and his teacher, Wang Xiangzhai, at the expense of Sun Lu-Tang's reputation.

CMA politics. Sigh.

[fuga]

I don't mean to sound like a dick, but really...who cares? If this is true, Sun Lu Tang lost a fight. So what? That makes him a fighter. The whole myth about people being "unbeatable" is just that...a myth.

+1

The "unbeatable" myth surrounding these arts is a barrier to progression. For me, losing and getting beat is one of the better ways to learn.

-pete

[fuga]

Strange bedfellows, indeed.

[Alexander]

I don't mean to sound like a dick, but really...who cares? If this is true, Sun Lu Tang lost a fight. So what? That makes him a fighter. The whole myth about people being "unbeatable" is just that...a myth.

Nah Juan, I totally agree. There really are politics in CMA, so much so that it's not even funny. Even in the religious groups that praise so-called humility and tolerance, there has been competition and slander since the dawn of time.. (Buddhists & Taoists).

It scares me how much ego is invested in both the martial arts and even in religion.

[Andy_S]

SNIP
I don't mean to sound like a dick,
SNIP

Well, careful then...

SNIP
but really...who cares? If this is true, Sun Lu Tang lost a fight. So what?
SNIP

So - no point learning his stuff - he is a loser! A loser!

SNIP
That makes him a fighter. The whole myth about people being "unbeatable" is just that...a myth.
SNIP

Bollocks. I have NEVER lost a fight. Of course, my art is too dangerous to fight so I have never HAD a fight.

But I can tell you this:
The grandfather of my teacher's teacher was a certifiable badass. No joke: He killed a bandit.

[wuwei]

Anyone who follows the online IMA community in Mainland China should noticed that there has been a fierce battle between some Yiquan and Sun Style people to outdo each other in inventing tall tales of secret challenge matches that go to their side's favor. What's being quoted here is very typical of one of those stories circulating on the Net. Don't believe any of those craps.

[jjy5016]

Both Sun and Wang are dead now. Let them rest in peace. Less storytelling, more training.

Amen.

[C.J.Wang]

Let's look at this using another story as an example: Wang Xiang-Zhai's students claim that Wang had beaten Xingyi master Shang Yun-Shiang, but from Shang's camp, people contend that it was Shang who beat Wang. So who's telling the truth?

Take these stories with a grain of salt might be the best thing to do.