What Exactly Does Softness Mean to You?

[Walk the Torque]

In the spirit of clarity I ask this question; What exactly does softness mean to you?

There appears to be a wave of 'let's be getting on the same page' -ness moving through large portions of the threads (or at least that's how I see it ). So I don't mind being the one to ask a plain, maybe even stupid question about how we see "softness" manifesting in fighting. What does it mean to be "soft".

To some softness is about yielding to an opponents (opps) force and taking control of them by either exhausting the opps efforts, or redirecting the opps body into a disadvantages position. Others maintain that softness means only that ones muscles do not hold excessive tension, and that it does not really matter what technique is used; for instance a hard block to an incoming blow would be perfectly exceptable provided the blocking limb was held in good structure, requiring only the minimum of "tension" to maintain the shape.

Again, others think that to be soft allows one to absorb an opponent's force directly into the body and channel it in such a way as to cause little or no harm; while there are those that say softness is all about gaining the ability to start honing sensitivity.

The main thing that I'm asking though is how exactly do you see softness manifesting; by which I mean how do you defend from a given technique, and how do you attack with a given technique using your version of softness?

I personally view all the above interpretations of softness as valid and in fact feel that they can co-exist with one another. For instance, when folding over an opponent's arm by bending at the elbow and circumnavigating their defending arm (softness by position), I also add a little Peng/or spring force to try and unbalance them as I step in softness by absorbtion).

Well anyway, I am interested to see the responses to find out if we are in fact speaking the same language. Please note I am not asking what softness is, but more how softness manifests in you techniques?

[everything]

you gave a few different meanings which are also in my mind usually:
1. avoid force on force
2. borrowing
3. relaxed
4. absorbing, and maybe a couple more:
5. ability to calibrate from "soft" to "hard", e.g., pin/hold, submission/lock, joint break
6. trying to "lead", redirect, or otherwise manipulate the opponent without him noticing, though this last point doesn't really need to be done in a soft way.

the hard blocking thing, I agree with your point, but don't usually associate it in my mind with "softness".

as far as techniques manifesting, in judo/bjj practice, I attempt to manifest softness in techniques and setups by trying to borrow, follow, staying relaxed, trying not to force an opportunity but capitalize when they arise, trying to "lead" the opponent without him noticing to create a setup, similar to various taijiquan push hands ideas.

[Chris McKinley]

A bit of a soup made out of all of the above, with a couple of exceptions. In a real fight, while it's great to be able to evade an opponent's attack, it's kung fu fantasy land to think you're just going to exhaust your opponent until he gives up trying to attack you, with you staying completely untouched by all of his attempts. Also, the channeling of an opponent's blow so as to minimize the damage is always a damage control measure and never the primary choice of defense. It never works all the time, and if he's got an impact or edged weapon, the odds of him overwhelming your attempts at minimizing increase dramatically.

[Mut]

softness= intelligent use of force

I think it is that simple. I train and teach to be adaptable I can be hard through stucture and I can leak through other structure while maintaining force, essentially softness to me is the ability to change and use my force where it is most applicable. I think it is more a mental thing that a physical thing in terms of how you respond to changing stimuli fluidly.

for example if i am trying to take your head off and you cover up softness will allow me to adapt by either leaking around the obstuction, by allowing me to change and remove the obstruction through unbalancing the person who's head I want to reach, or by allowing me to batter through the obstruction.

As Chris points out the idea of exhausting ones opponent in a real fight is niether softness or hardness, it is stupidity. I know I am not egotistical enough to think I am good enough to continually evade some idiot repeatedly having a go at me. Softness is the ability to leak through and smash the opponent to pieces.

... just as softness one part of the ability to difuse a situation before it comes to violence.

[Chris McKinley]

Mut,

RE: "... just as softness one part of the ability to difuse a situation before it comes to violence.". Pure gold.

[Mut]

cheers Chris

[Walk the Torque]

Mut,

RE: "... just as softness one part of the ability to difuse a situation before it comes to violence.". Pure gold.

Yeah I liked that too.

Well thanks guys, nice responses.

Firstly my apologies for the inadequately phrased "exhausting the opps efforts" ; I meant that more as taking a committed attack to its n'th degree and counterattacking when it was 'exhausted' . Bad description. My bad. Please also note, I don't think this a particularly good strategy either.


As Chris put it, I am on the "soup" side of the fence, but I also have another soft method to mention. That is the use and cultivation of directed momentum or kinetic force to add power to ones techniques. I see this as entirely different from just implied momentum from a coordinated strike or throw; and more the art of moving forces around the body and learning how to transfer those forces into another body during the execution of a given technique, So an arm break or take-down uses the actual internal force which in turn makes the external movement smaller.

[GrahamB]

I think soft has a meaning in terms of strategy (no force against force) and in terms of your own body (relaxed).

In terms of your own body: 'Relaxed' (or 'Sung') is the middle way between 'lax' and 'tense':

Lax ----- Relaxed ------- Tense

[bruce]

to me softness in relation to ima is not going against nature. but to follow what it offered to you.

[D_Glenn]

There are several different Chinese words that we translate as softness, they all have different meanings and usage so wouldn't it be a novel idea if we also translate the different meanings of the Chinese characters and not try to make them all mean the same thing.

Already in this thread we have mian, rou, shun, and song all being distorted to mean the same thing.

.

[Wanderingdragon]

The ability to change, and the sensitivity to feel the necessity

[D_Glenn]

The ability to change, and the sensitivity to feel the necessity

The ability to change (huan), and the sensitivity (ting)to feel the necessity-- does not equal softness, anyone can be extremely 'hard' (ying) and still use listening skill 'ting li' to properly change 'huan'.

.

[Chris McKinley]

D_Glenn,

It's a valid point to remind us that the IMA already have specific terms for the different kinds of softness we are discussing. However, the thread asks, "What exactly does softness mean to you?". Whether Conn is aware of precise Chinese terminology or not, the question is still valid. Only that which each of us is aware is useful to us anyway, so finding out where our awareness lies is productive. Perhaps you might illucidate some of those terms, and what they mean to you, for the benefit of those who may not be aware of the concepts they represent.

[D_Glenn]

Perhaps you might illucidate some of those terms, and what they mean to you, for the benefit of those who may not be aware of the concepts they represent.

Well from what I've come across is that 'rou' to me means the same thing to another IMA style when they say 'rou', so what these characters/words mean to me is consistent to what the same character/word means to someone else. So I impart no personal modification on the meanings/definintions, learn what they mean in your own art and it's probably the same as my own.

And trying to define a physical quality/movement on a forum using only words would be difficult. You need to be shown and feel the qualities.

.

[Chris McKinley]

D_Glenn,

Whether or not you've imparted personal modifications on the meanings or not isn't really the issue. I suggested you offer some exposition of those terms and concepts because, so far, all you've done is offered what appears to be elitist criticism of the ignorance of those posting to the thread without offering anything at all productive to remediate the situation. Again, the thread is about what "softness" means to the individual readers and posters, not necessarily the formal glossary appendix of Chinese terminology. If you are able to identify precisely how some of us may have "distorted" the meanings of terms like mian, rou, shun and song purely from verbal description, then surely you can also give an example of how those terms might be described in an undistorted way?