Dealing With "Freight Train" Attack

Discussion on the three big Chinese internals, Yiquan, Bajiquan, Piguazhang and other similar styles.

Re: Dealing With "Freight Train" Attack

Postby Josealb on Wed Jun 18, 2008 7:29 am

One thing that works is that when you go straight back, or back/side, its ok to do this, as long as you leave something there for the guy to get. Like a quick slap or a sneaky hook, or zuan. Its gonna hurt because the guy will walk right into it if done right, and it will stop the train mentality after he catches the second one. So every step or two back you hit the guy, and as soon as he flinches of stops advancing, thats the queue to go in.

For example, Du (practices with us). Hes a large chap, 260 pounds i think, and im skinny.When sparring, he doesnt go with the train mentality as often as he should, which felipe keeps telling him its exactly what he should do considering his size, but when he does...ill be damned if im gonna try to jam him or tackle him or anything. Thats not a choice. What i do is just leave a strike in place for every step i take back, and keep him in check. If i dont, i cant see a reason why he wouldnt pummel right thru me.
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Re: Dealing With "Freight Train" Attack

Postby lindun on Wed Jun 18, 2008 7:37 am

counter the attack with blocks get a good angle for a throw, sweep. go for the legs. but you must quick
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Re: Dealing With "Freight Train" Attack

Postby MAFAN on Wed Jun 18, 2008 7:51 am

nothing substitutes for practice and experimentation - but I saw somewhere a quote "when the boat approaches the dock, stand to the side and push the front- redirecting the force" if you look at the big picture of this saying, you see that it is basically do not match Max. force with Max. force when opponent is stronger than you- work angles to increase efficiency of the use of your force. Best investigation is practice though- you wont find the answer on a forum- but you will find excellent food for thought- use that to experiment yourself.
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Re: Dealing With "Freight Train" Attack

Postby DeusTrismegistus on Wed Jun 18, 2008 10:04 am

I am usually the train. There are two people who can make me feel like they are the train, my 140-150 lb teacher and his senior black belt who weighs about what I do.

The person who I have the most trouble running down is the smallest guy in class. He usually stay just outside my reach and will block and push my arms across my body and strike me. Then he will circle really close to me, I am too big to spin quickly so he can get behind me pretty quick.

My teacher stops my train dead in its tracks, he just barely moves and gets out of the way of my strikes then starts pummeling me and next thing I know I am back peddling trying not to get demolished. When he blocks a strike it will pull or knock me off balance, the more committed I am to the strike the worse it is, a good solid root is a must to be able to do that when someone 130 lbs heavier than yourself is striking at you.
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Re: Dealing With "Freight Train" Attack

Postby dragontigerpalm on Wed Jun 18, 2008 10:12 am

Even a large matador steps to the side of the bull. ;)
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Re: Dealing With "Freight Train" Attack

Postby Muad'dib on Wed Jun 18, 2008 10:43 am

You need to do what I used to call "hulk training". I was a small guy, still am, and I would totally lose it in fights and just go for the brawl. The few fights I was actually in, it worked fine, because people, they fear the crazy. Unless they are the crazy.

Basically, I would get someone who I knew and liked fairly much, to fuck with me. Both verbally, and by throwing tip tap jabs. When I was good and pissed, then I'd go and try to work the technical drills.
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Re: Dealing With "Freight Train" Attack

Postby Johnny Drama on Wed Jun 18, 2008 12:49 pm

One guy I used to spar with was heavier then me. He would shoot a lazy jab, then cover his head and charge in. From there he would get a clinch and go to town. It was hard to deal with. The ways I fixed this were-

Shooting a hard jab at him. Punching right through that shield. Make every punch count. Make him hurt as he comes in.

Short counters. I almost KOed this guy by throwing a short overhand right that flew right over his guard and nailed him on the temple. When they come charging in, they are open to big counters.

Shoot a lower body takedown, put them right on their back.

Generally, its tough dealing with someone bigger and more aggressive then you. They can hurt you just with spazzing out. So, you have to be that much better then them. If you are though, you can finish them fast.
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Re: Dealing With "Freight Train" Attack

Postby kreese on Wed Jun 18, 2008 1:14 pm

Do you do any taiji? In this case, I actually think some close-range stationary pushhands might give you some new options.
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Re: Dealing With "Freight Train" Attack

Postby cerebus on Wed Jun 18, 2008 8:35 pm

My thanks to everyone for their responses. We'll see how my training goes for the next few weeks...
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Re: Dealing With "Freight Train" Attack

Postby wiesiek on Thu Jun 19, 2008 1:29 am

catch/block his punch /,
twist u body and do deep squat /stay on toes and look at him all the time/
when he is over u, just lift the hips and twist your head

This need some training time,
but
i was able to win /easy!/ fight with much bigger guys than me by this move
however it was on the street an he knows nothing about MA
so
i add for u next move:
if he is good and will block u throw - change direction, go follow him, add pusch and do the inner swep
best W.
Last edited by wiesiek on Thu Jun 19, 2008 1:39 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Dealing With "Freight Train" Attack

Postby Finny on Thu Jun 19, 2008 2:19 am

I'd try what Dan Madar said Troy

Keep up what you're doing, try to lose yourself in sparring, and then *snap* - conciously remind yourself to move

I have very much the same problem, the only time I seem to be able to overcome it is one of those rare moments of clarity, where I am able to remind myself what I'm supposed to be doing.

Work on increasing the frequency of these moments, to the point where you can conciously dictate the path you want to take.

It's obviously a mentality thing, but like anything else, these things can be (must be) systematically trained step by step.
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Re: Dealing With "Freight Train" Attack

Postby Ian on Thu Jun 19, 2008 3:46 am

Have your partner attack you with something that you physically can't just stand there and take.

Suggestions: willow branch, sjambok, bullwhip, stick, sword, knife, airsoft etc.

Or something softer like a tennis ball.

Have him come at you slowly to begin with. That'll break your habit in no time.
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Re: Dealing With "Freight Train" Attack

Postby Muad'dib on Thu Jun 19, 2008 4:27 am

A bullwhip? A sjambok? The man lives in the SF bay area. Do you know what the going rate for that kind of thing is?

seriously though, that's not a bad idea. for troy this is a mental/habit thing, not a skillz thing. Troy you might also consider finding a hypnotist, or going for some very heavy visualizations for like an hour a day, everyday. I know even right know just thinking about the situation, I can feel my old "brawl" habit coming to the fore.
Last edited by Muad'dib on Thu Jun 19, 2008 4:30 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Dealing With "Freight Train" Attack

Postby DeusTrismegistus on Thu Jun 19, 2008 5:39 am

Zhong_Kui wrote:A bullwhip? A sjambok? The man lives in the SF bay area. Do you know what the going rate for that kind of thing is?

seriously though, that's not a bad idea. for troy this is a mental/habit thing, not a skillz thing. Troy you might also consider finding a hypnotist, or going for some very heavy visualizations for like an hour a day, everyday. I know even right know just thinking about the situation, I can feel my old "brawl" habit coming to the fore.


That is actually very good practice IMO. You think about a situation over and over again and what your response should be. Imagine yourself doing what you should be doing. I did this with a particular step to avoid a roundhouse kick for a couple weeks and within a couple weeks I had started stepping the way I wanted to instead of the way I had been for the last 10 years.
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Re: Dealing With "Freight Train" Attack

Postby cerebus on Thu Jun 19, 2008 8:39 am

Zhong_Kui wrote:A bullwhip? A sjambok? The man lives in the SF bay area. Do you know what the going rate for that kind of thing is?

seriously though, that's not a bad idea. for troy this is a mental/habit thing, not a skillz thing. Troy you might also consider finding a hypnotist, or going for some very heavy visualizations for like an hour a day, everyday. I know even right know just thinking about the situation, I can feel my old "brawl" habit coming to the fore.


LOL! Other than lotsa sparring, hypnotism (some self-hypnotism) might actually be one of the better things to try. And yeah, here near San Francisco it's easy to find someone who will be happy to whip or beat you... for the right price... ;) ;D

I think I just need either Fong or Jess or some other large and aggressive fighter to come to our sparring sessions and spar with me more often. My regular training bros are great, but they tend to be either counter-fighters (which I often am myself), or just not large enough to overwhelm me. Damn it Pete and Dave! Start eating more fried foods! ;D
Last edited by cerebus on Thu Jun 19, 2008 8:40 am, edited 1 time in total.
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