The level of Chen syle in Europe

[ors]

In May some practioners of our school (Hungarian Chen Style Xinyi Hunyuan Taijiquan Association) went to the 16th World Kung Fu Wushu Championship (organised by the CKA) in Perugia, Italy, to compete in the Traditional Taiji Barehand -, and Weapons Routine categories. The leader of the group was one of my shixiong Gábor Molnár, disciple of Han Kuiyuan. Master Han is actually a disciple of both the late Tian Xiuchen and Feng Zhiqiang.
After the first few performances, they just realized that the members of our group was notoriously disqualified by the referees. The leader of our group made a protest immediately, and it is turned out, that the referees didn’t know at all what they saw. They said that was not Chen Style. They said they didn’t know anyone from our lineage, like Feng Zhiqiang or even Chen Fake!
After the Championship our school made an official protest against the disqualification. The president of the World CKA, Giuliano Fulvi answered this protest in a short letter, which I copy here, just to show the quality of the Taijiquan in Europe, and how the practioners are misled commonly…
Look carefully the 3rd point!!!!

“Dear Master
After the supervision and careful examination of the video records we give you the reasons that have caused the competitions scores:
1. Your performance in BAREHABDS MASTERS TROPHY was of 4 minutes and 36 seconds and the time for this competition is from 3 to 4 minutes (see Official Rules page 16),
2. COMPETITIONS WITH WEAPONS (both Master and Students): all of you had penalties because you used flexible weapons that are for modern and not traditional forms.
3. All of your forms are methods of codified modern Tai Chi and not of ancient Tai Chi.
According WORLD CKA rules, we intend for TRADITIONAL" all the methods and styles coming from schools before the cultural revolution, as from Taiwan, Japan, USA, Europe… and besides many forms didn't respect in general the linearity of Tai Chi as high positions, look and movement, speed and not slowness, that are penalized in this context.
As it regards the measures of the area of Tai Chi Competitions, in our official Rules is specified that must be mt. 10x8 but in this edition of the world championship, in the 2nd page of the program was specified mt. 8x5 and for this reason it was allowed to go out of the area without penalty. The measures of the competitions areas have been changed after the more and more increasing adhesion of participants, this to try to respect the times in order to make our championship more and more good for all the participants.
According all the reasons above mentioned, on next editions your performances will be classified in MODERN TAI CHI..
J hope that you can understand all our reasons, J wish all the best for your school and J will wait for your kind reply
Best regards
Master Giuliano Fulvi”

Örs

[Areios]

I know of Molnár Gábor, and that is some strange stuff. Hes one of the best chen players I saw.

[Dmitri]

I don't understand why people compete in "traditional taiji" forms anymore. I did it several years ago, because my teacher said I should (and I don't regret it, it was a good experience), but I never, ever gave a flying f#@k about the judges, points, medals, etc. When I got the "internal grandchampion" thing and had a choice of either getting a certificate OR a check for $150, I didn't hesitate too long. "Points" don't mean nothin'.

Vast majority of the judges don't know what they're talking about or looking at, when it comes to traditional taijiquan - any style...
What else is new...

[DeusTrismegistus]

What a bunch of malarchy.

[Syd]

I Dunno ... the idea of performing Taijiquan for medals like Olympic events never made sense or appealed to me in the first place ... same goes for push-hands competitions. They did you a favour in one way.

[JoseFreitas]

When competing in Taiji forms tournaments, it's generally better to get the being used rules ahead of time, and also to try to stick to any standardized form that is being used. I find it odd that they qualified your friends as Modern vs. Traditional, given that they're actually asking for a standardized time frame to finish the form (ie. 3 to 4 minutes); since many of the "traditional" forms would be over 10 or even 15 minutes, I think it suspect that time would be an issue here.

I have competed on occasion, and I always stuck to the 42 Standardized Competition Routine, a form that I actually rather like, and I think is in fact a very good Taiji form, and which needs to be performed within 5 to 6 minutes, and ALWAYS competed with other forms in either the "Other" or "Combined" categories, regardless of whether I was doing Yang or Combined. This is generally a good bet since most judges in those categories will be aware that they're going to see stuff they don't know. If you go to Chen Category, as your friends did, what happens is there's a good chance that you'll get people who trained a in a different lineage, and may be looking for what they know and expect, rather than for the underlying principles. And since there are no written exams requirements re. lineages and history to qualify as a judge, you shouldn't take it too personally if they never heard of your lineages. These judges are probably people exercising the only possible authority they will ever have in the MA world, namely, dissing someone else.

I also wouldn't worry overmuch about someone who is "President of CKA" and still needs to sign a letter as "Master...".

[ors]

Thanks for the answers!

There is one thing what you missed I think... What hurts me in the presidents letter the most, is this part:

According WORLD CKA rules, we intend for TRADITIONAL" all the methods and styles coming from schools before the cultural revolution, as from Taiwan, Japan, USA, Europe… and besides many forms didn't respect in general the linearity of Tai Chi as high positions, look and movement, speed and not slowness, that are penalized in this context.

It means, that any Taijiquan what exists in the PRC nowadays, especially chen style NOT traditional, but modern wushu!
Feng Zhiqiang's taijiquan is modern wushu! Tian Xiuchen's Taijiquan is modern wushu!

Örs

[Areios]

Hát eddig nem tudtam, h Európában ennyire nincsenek képben. Vagy lehet valami hülye felesleges "politika" van benne.

[ors]

Erre nem tudok válaszolni, de annyit hozzátennék, hogy Gábor egy éve megnyerte a Perugiai versenyt...

Örs

[AllanF]

Personally i am not one for competitions, the time limit is one reason (my form take between 35-40mins), and the fact that the judges use a 'standardised' set of rules to judge by. To be fair to them it is really the only way to judge any competition. Unless we go dow the figure skating route!

Taiji is such that it is very difficult to see what is very good unless you touch the person. Secondly there is a very good chance that these 'master' judges don't truely understand taiji themselves. Which is the conculsion i am finding myself left with these days.

Don't sweat it, pieces of paper that say you do a pretty form mean nothing in reality. If anything it creates a false impression of your own skills. Because you have a medal you think you are the bomb and fail to examine your own practise and may practise to look good and not for functional reasons.