Conditioning out the Flinch

[DeusTrismegistus]

How important is it in your own practice to condition out the flinch response. Do you try to eleminate flinching or do you try to make the flinch response work for you? What exercises or activities do you think help eleminate the flinch?

Personally I think working trading punches at medium contact and medium speed go a long way. Also is to spar at light/medium contact and medium/slow speeds and not allow yourself to block.

[Ben]

I try to emilinate the flinch. The most valuable thing was I had on some headgear and my first teacher hit me in the head until I didn't flinch anymore. It took 4 hits and about 15 seconds.

[Darthwing Teorist]

You cannot eliminate the flinch no matter how well trained you may be. You can always flinch in a new, unexpected situation.

What we do, is functionalize the flinch. We try to reduce it as much as possible but also we try to deal with it: train to reduce it's effects. This is related to the Low and High Road of the fear response. We try to take the High Road whenever possible. When, not, we try to come back to a rational state as soon as possible. This why breathing is so important in Systema: it helps bring the mind to a "normal" state.

That said, a flinch response can be good (though not always). What happens, is that the mind usually freaks out after the initial response and then it does not respond properly to the following events. Think about a driver avoiding an unexpected animal on the road, only to crash into the road ditch.

A short article on Systema's flow training
A more complete article on Systema flow training

[Darthwing Teorist]

I try to emilinate the flinch. The most valuable thing was I had on some headgear and my first teacher hit me in the head until I didn't flinch anymore. It took 4 hits and about 15 seconds.

After getting my nose smashed by a more advanced student, I started flinching when getting hit in the face. I am working in a similar way to get over, in what I call Whack-a-Teo drill: people hit me with slaps over the head. I deal with this by shielding and moving.

[bigphatwong]

I find that drliling a lot of Tiger helps, mainly because it works to transform the natural flinch reflex (i.e. startled, hands up protecting face) into a yang or offensive motion. It's also my default ready position for sparring, fighting and de-escalation. I'm fairly certain that the posture "Push" from Yang style works in much the same way.

[ashe]

just HTFU

[qiphlow]

just HTFU

actually, i think this is the way. the more i spar, the less i flinch. so (in theory, at least) if i spar enough, eventually i should get to the point that flinching on my part won't completely fuck me up.

[Darthwing Teorist]

Just remember that you minimize the flinch in the context of sparring.

What about when someone sucker punches you, or you get jumped from behind?


PS:

That said, sparring is good, but limited. One of the important benefits of sparring is confidence in your applications.

Another aspect of functionalizing the flinch, is to train diverse scenarios, applying your art's principles over and over again. Start slow and build up speed, intensity and fear as you get better. If you flinch go back a notch.


Now, I'm off to a kicking class. Talk to you guys later or in two days from now.

[Mut]

You cannot eliminate the flinch no matter how well trained you may be. You can always flinch in a new, unexpected situation.

agree with this. The trick is to make it work for you. Personally I still flinch even when my young boys do silly things. The first trick is to get used to contact to the head I think... this IMO does not require being beaten constantly in the face but to get used to the feel of being touched on the face (who apart from your mother and lover touches your face outside of training)

Part of using the flinch is conditioning a certain type of response.
2 examples: About 3 years ago I was working in a house with some clients that where reasonably difficult. This house was in a pretty rough area. Anyway one night while I was walking to work one of my co-workers decided to hide in the bushes afew houses up from the workplace. He jumped out to grab me, I flinched at that but was on him a fraction of a second later. I don't recall what happened in those instants but He said to me later that i kicked/kneed him in the nuts and was about to smash his face when I realised what was going on..... needless to say he never tried that again..... instead he started leaving partypopper booby traps around the house, which was very humorous, open a cupboard and bang streamers to the face, but I digress.

The second example is a client who often threatewns to kick nuts. One day he tried this on me and my response was to move straight in after the flinch.

We try to use a maxim of if yin then yang so you don't take 2 backwards steps in a row.... i.e: If you flinch your very next movement should be offensive in nature. That works well for me.It needs too in my work there are often clients trying to take advantage through sneaky little moves....

[Ben]

Interesting idea of "never two Yins in a row". I'll give that one some thought.

[DeusTrismegistus]

The second example is a client who often threatewns to kick nuts. One day he tried this on me and my response was to move straight in after the flinch.
That works well for me.It needs too in my work there are often clients trying to take advantage through sneaky little moves....

What I want to know, is what line of work are you in where people pay you so they can try to kick you in the nuts?

[Mut]

I work with people who have an intellectual dis ability. I work mainly with challenging behavior clients because I am a not so small man. So having threats to be kicked in the nuts is actually quite mild in comparison to some things that have happened to me.

damn Ben you where onto it before the edit!

[Mike Strong]

Hardcore ZZ, of course, but there are a few gimmicks that you can use:

1. Have your sparring partner wear wool gloves soaked in water, and as you spar he flicks water at your eyes, ...

... your job is not to flinch.

2. Have someone flick sand at your eyes.

But Ashes's advice is the best, - just get hit enough to know that getting hit isn't the end of the world, and HTFU !







my $.02

[Dmitri]

I deal with this by shielding

Dude, you're shielding!

[LaPointe]

IMO, it's important to condition your flinch into something effective. ideally, you shouldn't be surprised by an attack, but if you are, you don't want to just curl up into a ball. my wing chun teacher used to tell me that if you freak and don't know what's coming, you should put up an arm and a leg (read: some kind of block and kick). i never really liked that, but he seemed to use it well. he also taught us (and this is more rational to me) that we needed to condition ourselves to not shy away from an attack and throw our hands up, but (in typical wing chun fashion) move forward and hit. always hit. i feel like flinching can be useful, but only if you turn it into something useful. the taoist thing is that you shouldn't be surprised. lots of meditation, standing and otherwise, and lots of sparring/sensitivity exercises should make that more possible. i'm working on that right now, but i still flinch. usually my flinch involves fists directed at throats. it seems to be effective.