Training in 2 styles at once

[johnwang]

If you have 2 teachers and when teacher A said,

- "In judo, your feet should be side by side, not staggered with one foot in front." Teacher B said, "In SC, your should have one foot forward and one foot backward."
- "In Bagua circle walking, you move your front foot first and back foot later." Teacher B said, "In SC circle running, you move your back foot first and front foot later."
- "In WC Bon Shou, you expose your eblow to your opponent." Teacher B said, "In long fist, you should never expose your elbow to your opponent."
- "In XingYi, you move your front leg first and then back leg follow." Teacher B said, "In CC, you should always move your back leg first."
- "In Bagua, you always cross your legs." Teacher B said, "In SC, you should never cross your legs."
- "In Taiji, you should always train in slow speed." Teacher B said, "In prey mantis, you should always train in fast speed."
- "In WC, you should always hold a tight fist." Teacher B said, "In SC, you should always hold a loose fist."
- "In boxing, a jab is a punch to the head." Teacher B said, "In CC, a jab is to build a bridge."
- "You should use weight to make you strong." Teacher B said, "You should not work on weight because it's against the principle of Sung."
- "You should spar/wrestle on day one." Teacher B said, "You should spend 10 years to build up your foundation before you start to spar."
- "You should extend your chest out so your back muscle can hold a pencle." Teacher B said, "You should drop your shoulder, curve your back, and keep your chest hollow."
- "When you punch, your arm and your chest should be on one straight line." Teacher B said, "When you punch, your arm and your chest should be in a 90 degree angle."
- "Qi ball is the highest level of MA training." Teacher B said, "Qi ball is BS."

Which teacher are you going to listen to?

[wayne hansen]

"

Which teacher are you going to listen to?[/quote]

when you have the right teacher you wont have to ask

[Alexander]

If they can kick my ass then I won't be asking questions anyway.

[Tesshu]

"


when you have the right teacher you wont have to ask

+1

But nice list of different approaches there.

I've crosstrained Mantis (fast) and Tai Chi Chuan (slow practice) for a long time and it worked just fine. TCC helped me a lot with the Mantis training because of the "Sung" I could be fast enough. And when they hooked and tried to brake, a good Peng Jin was always nice.
I am leaving the Mantis training a bit behind right now, because for some characteristics of our TCC style it's in the way, especially the mental work.

[johnwang]

I am leaving the Mantis training a bit behind right now, because for some characteristics of our TCC style it's in the way, especially the mental work.

Could you share more information on this?

[H2O]

I've never had a problem meshing the different arts, I don't look at 'style' anymore though. I categorize my training into Ti, Da, Shuai, and Na. When I train striking, I lean toward boxing and Muay Thai, not because I'm a boxer or a Thai boxer, but because I feel I get the most bang for my buck using those methods. When I train throwing, I do Judo. I did Shuai Chiao for a while as well, so both come out when I get on the mat. It's all Shuai and what works, works. I don't train much Na specifically anymore, but I did for a long time. I've pulled off standing locks in randori more than once, just playing around. I think that comes out of push hands, judo grip fighting, and doing locks. I train groundwork as well, and basically do BJJ in a training environment. Internally, I train Yi Chuan standing, my defense for everything comes out of Tui Shou, and I use C.C. Chn body mechanics for everything. I've found this to work very well for me, but I focus on trianing, not styles.

[Tesshu]

I am leaving the Mantis training a bit behind right now, because for some characteristics of our TCC style it's in the way, especially the mental work.

Could you share more information on this?

Uff, this is not easy.

As I learned it the Mantis (I practice Qi Xing Tang Lang Quan) tries more to go into initiative in fighting - while our TCC goes more in the direction of going with the enemy - becoming one etc. I see that ultimately the Mantis Style (as most styles will do) will lead to that as well, but in the meantime it feels different. Also most (and I mean about 99,9%) Mantis-practitioners try to be faster than the opponent. For example they hook and rip before the right moment is there and so on. To get rid of this, you have to change your mind: It is not being faster, but to get the right moment. Therefore you have to relax your mind into something like an "I don't care what he does"-attitude. This I didn't find in Mantisboxing and it prevented me for a long time to learn the real glueing my hands to the opponent. As long as I tried to DO something sticking didn't take place. But this is more about strategy.

While training the Mantisstyle I learned a lot of techniques which are hiding some principles. In TCC I learn it the other way round: A lot of principles that MAY lead to certain techniques (but don't need to). It is easier to change while fighting if you don't rely on techniques. Mantis didn't teach me that.

I train a lot of mind focussing (and I don't mean eye focussing). The TCC training helps with this a lot. You have to be sure about the target, but you do not necessarily have to look at it directly. If I stand directly in front of an opponent, I gaze - so I don't focus my eyes on him. This is to see his and other movements at the periphery. But my mind is clearly on him. Somehow when we get into contact I flow to him. When there is an opening something goes into it. I don't really know before and I forget instantly about it. As I am no "master" (yet ) and some training partners are quite good sometimes I get into a bad position, but this becomes less and less. Basic thing: My mind is on the target and pulls me into there. I cannot do that while trying to overtake or overpower my opponent.

Next thing would be the Daoism approach to the "I" (English meaning).
I don't know in which way it happens: I found a lot of Mantispractitioners to have a really strong ego. This may help in fighting (sometimes). Now I am wondering whether people of that sort start practising mantis more often OR mantis makes people that way. I don't know. And before someone picks up on this: I know that not everybody who practices mantis is of that sort. Sorry, didn't want to pick on anybody.
This strong ego can be in the way for a lot of Wu Wei, er, things.


Now this may read a bit cerebral, but maybe someone understands my meaning.

[everything]

initiative in fighting - while our TCC goes more in the direction of going with the enemy - becoming one etc.

sometimes you should seize the initiative. sometimes you shouldn't or you can't

[Tesshu]

initiative in fighting - while our TCC goes more in the direction of going with the enemy - becoming one etc.

sometimes you should seize the initiative. sometimes you shouldn't or you can't

Sure. No news to me. If there is an opening - get in. No problem.

[Bao]

Which teacher are you going to listen to?

I would never listen to any teacher making such generalisations...

One of my teachers could not open his mouth without generalise things. I believe the middle name "generalisation" had been very suitable. He was a great practitioner and fighter. But all of his students was nothing compared to him. I started learning something from him first when I stopped listening to what he said.

Practicing and exploring with an open mind is important, maybe listening with your hands. But not listening with your ears is sometimes better than just accepting what your teacher (or style) says.

[MartialDev]

...Which teacher are you going to listen to?

I listen to them all, and then check whether they are correct.

Where can I find this legendary "right teacher" who never makes a mistake? I guess he never opens his mouth.

[SPJ]

If you have 2 teachers and when teacher A said,

Which teacher are you going to listen to?

bipolar situation. personally, I prefer to learn and focus on one style at a time for a few months and then move on to the next.

even we may let our brain to follow teachers' instructions, but our body may not adjust and switch posture requirements so readily.

I have a friend from tian jian, he just learned and practiced santi posture for 3 years straight and nothing else. focus is the key.

listen to this



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sTIv8hP-UIA

toward the end

I can only hear "I will survive" and nothing else.

it is better for our mind and body to focus on one thing at a time.

[NoSword]

I started learning something from him first when I stopped listening to what he said.

Practicing and exploring with an open mind is important, maybe listening with your hands. But not listening with your ears is sometimes better than just accepting what your teacher (or style) says.

+1

If I had a teacher of GM Chang's caliber, then I would just do everything he told me to the best of my ability. I acknowledge that one shifu, one style is the ideal, and it has produced results in the past which most of us will be unable to replicate with a piecemeal approach. However, that's not the reality that most of us are faced with, as Westerners and as modern people. Most of us have to go through many teachers and styles before we find one (or several) that's a good 'fit'.

In general, I try and understand not only what a teacher is saying, but why he's saying it. Then I can make an informed decision about how to incorporate it into my practice (or not).

[chimerical tortoise]

Not training at the moment, university is bleeding me dry. But I have looked at a few different systems and sometimes at the same time, so maybe this helps.

There's no reason to see two teachers if they are saying the same thing. IMO the only reason you study elsewhere is if you want to address things that you know from another perspective. For instance VT is very 強 while Bagua is 順; there are very, very opposite principles in each. Also VT does not focus on joint manipulation/takedown/throws, but it offers an aggressive striking strategy that Bagua focuses on less. If I am curious about throws then obviously I shouldn't be looking for them in VT.

At the end of the day it might be difficult to try and reconcile different teachings. But I'm not experienced, so at the moment when I study other systems it's to try and understand why (both) teachers do things the way they teach. Alot of it can be similar (relax, balance, structure), the specific practices though are not. I find some of the most interesting insight comes from realising why one system does something, when you are working on techniques that use a different approach to the same thing.

Training is training, I don't put the time in, there's no point in expecting the results to take place. I suspect it's the same for what %time you spent too on each practice if you do more than one.

[edededed]

Each style has its own strategies (often based on favorite methods to use), which shape the principles. Often, these principles contradict each other from style to style, so you can't do contradicting styles simultaneously. Techniques, on the other hand, are often more compatible than not, as long as you can use them using the body methods that you have already.