Tim Does It Again (Sun Taijiquan)

[D_Glenn]

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[Andy_S]

Good to see Cartmell producing more material on CMA. As Tom notes, the man has some of the widest combative experience out there, having moved beyond per se CMA.

Jake:

You are doing Sun AND Zhaobao under Tim? I have always been interested in Tim's Zhaobao work, which I believe focuses heavily on foundational gongfu training...? Any info on your training in this art would most appreciated. Also, I know very little about Sun Taiji (Tom kindly sent me a DVD a few years back) but am intrigued by its rep for being applicable with little or no change from the form, indicating it is a technique-based system, rather than a gongfu training regimen in of iteself. Comments?

D-Glenn:

What you posted re Sun and BJ seems a reasonable statement. While the CMA teachers of yore would have had the upper hand had it come to a duel with sword or spear, I don't think they had:
Anything like the empty-hand fighting exposure that modern MMA peeps (AFAIK, there was no leitei circuit in pre-modern China, just occassional ad hoc events and individual challenges);
The range of technique - kick, punch, throw, lock, G&P, ground submissions, etc - that modern MMA people do; or
The outstanding conditioning that modern athletes are forced to adopt.

Times change, and so do MA. I think MMA today is probably the most wide-ranging and realistic application of martial arts in recent history...superior to both Olde English prize fighting and Chinese leitei challenges. This is not to say that the old boys were not great men and pioneers in martial methodologies - but they must be judged by the standards and experience of their own age. To judge them by the standards of today is an unfair comparison to them.

[D_Glenn]

Andy, actually that was an inside joke but truthfully I couldn't disagree with you more. On the subject of weapons the CMAs have been essentially all Empty-hand since 1900. Since the cultural revolution you don't have as many Chinese who can be supported by a teacher and practice full-time.

Not a big deal though.

I think we've already lost too much already.

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...

[cloudz]

This is great news!

[Felipe Bidó]

I want it

[JAB]

Thanks guys. Very nice of you to say Tom! This will be a landmark project as no one has produced anything of this quality on Sun Taiji, dare I say any Taiji that I have seen.

Those who assume they know what happens with Tim and his students are merely keyboard warriors. Tim's whole foundation lies in the Chinese arts. Though not many, there are a few of us still training and practicing the various arts under Tim.

Andy,
I am no expert in anything, and I am rather new to Zhaobao (last year or two). There are a number of foundational exercises that can be quite challenging. Work on the flexibility and strength of the hips and legs and you will be fine. But all arts for the most part have some sort of foundational training.
Indeed the Sun form is rather straight forward and easily applied. Your comment on "rather than a gongfu training regimen in of itself." makes little sense to me? Form is form. Drills are drills. Forms are used to teach coordinated movement representing principles of a given art form, thusly creating rhythm. Sun is no different in that respect.
For further info check out vol 17 # 4 of last years Journal of Asian Martial Arts, I wrote a comprehensive article on Sun Taiji. Email me if you can't find it.

Cheers
JAB

[JAB]

Tom
They were not too difficult for me (with a couple of exceptions) because I had been doing a lot of squats and my hip strength was pretty well developed by the time I got to them. For someone new to the arts in general, or out of shape... they can be deal breakers! Just takes practice!
Cheers
Jake

[Areios]

there will be a trailer for that?

[Areios]

i don't know what that meant.

[taiwandeutscher]

Have been lucky enough to practice both systems for some years now, down in southern Taiwan.

But for me, there is no such a clear connection between Xiong Wei's Daoyin (as I heard, he didn't teach any Taijiquan for some years now) and Wang Jinrang's Zhaobao.

Xiong's much further developed stuff impresses me a lot, because it teaches the so-called neizijue, self knowledge of your body, know all your body parts and muscles. Still do it, with great pleasure, especially when it is hot like now in Taiwan, much more difficult in winter. (Advantage: with 75 kg on 174 cm, I'm small).

Wang's Zhaobao centers much more on dantian activity, seldomly getting to all this little, tiny self inspections. It's been another form for me, with mostly short jin applications, and the teachers (Xiao Zhefu, Zheng Guohui as direct disciples from Wang) are not as impressive as the mainland guys doing the many levels of hulei. After half the form, curriculum at university also changed and I stopped the zhaobao, also in order to get into Yin style bagua.

But Xiong Wei's work, I don't want to stopp, though still and always hard after some 5, 6 years, but never pushing to the limit of injury.

[JAB]

Tom
Make sure to keep the knees tracking the toes in any squat. Don't overdue it (go to low) at first. And I am more of a fan of the low / slow reps.

Cheers
JAB