Newby Taiji Teacher

[JonathanArthur]

I'd like to point out that there is one major difference between teaching children English versus teaching MA, that being that in MA your students come to you out of choice and therefore should be expected to take responsibility for their part in the learning process from day one. Have a clear understanding between the teacher and the students that you are there to facilitate the learning process, and that while a degree of independent scepticism is essential, it should always remain on the side of positive doubt. If a student values their own opinion of the material over the teacher then they shouldn't be approaching you for teaching. I've learnt most about teaching from being a student of good teachers. And good teachers in my view will require students to understand their purpose for practising, if the student is on a different path they should find the suitable method. This kind of thinking does not of course apply to teaching ESL as in Omar's case, nor is it particularly suited to creating a viable business. But one must come first to some degree or another. I've seen teachers who only care for the fee, and most often to the detriment of the student's progress and the integrity of the method. I've also seen teachers who cared so little about the money that they suffer considerably in the financial aspect. From one teacher I learnt this; you pay for the teacher's time, whatever he feels it's worth. What comes after you pay for in effort and sincerity. If in the this life or the next I teach an art that is close to my heart, this is how I'd do it. And on a personal note; that was a damn hard lesson.

[Dmitri]

Good post yzp.

It's a damn fine line to walk, for both teachers and student, in modern-day TMA schools, balancing between tradition (i.e. "teacher is god"), tuition ("I pay therefore he owes me his 'teaching services'"), content/quality of teaching, personal relationships that might develop over time, etc. A lot of people come into MA schools thinking they are owed something because they pay tuition and while that's true, in MA schools this is very different and a lot of people, esp. younger generation, simply don't get it. Or maybe the world has changed so MA schools really AREN'T any different from, say, aerobics classes? Personally I disagree, but then that's just one man's opinion...

[bailewen]

I'd like to point out that there is one major difference between teaching children English versus teaching MA, that being that in MA your students come to you out of choice and therefore should be expected to take responsibility for their part in the learning process from day one.

IMO, the attitudes expressed above, Dmitri included, go a long way to explaining why it is generally perceived as damn near impossible to make a living as a martial arts teacher. From my perspective, there certainly is that difference but it's hardly a "major" difference. In fact, I consider it barely relevant. You can not take your students presence for granted. If you think that having them captive in your class is an advantage, you are gravely misinformed. I am just not seeing what is the significance of a student body of those there by choice. My students may not have the choice to simply stop attending but a room full of student who really don't want to be there is a fucking nightmare. They outnumber me 55 or more to 1. You must motivate them to want to be there. I can't see how teaching a martial arts class with the attitude that you have some sort of advantage because they came to you out of choice. If you do not work hard at becoming a good teacher, they will leave the class out of choice as well.

All the same rules apply.

If you fail in an ESL classroom, you will have to endure havoc.
If you fail in a martial arts class room you will have to endure a lack of students.

This kind of thinking does not of course apply to teaching ESL as in Omar's case, nor is it particularly suited to creating a viable business. But one must come first to some degree or another. I've seen teachers who only care for the fee, and most often to the detriment of the student's progress and the integrity of the method. I've also seen teachers who cared so little about the money that they suffer considerably in the financial aspect. From one teacher I learnt this; you pay for the teacher's time, whatever he feels it's worth. What comes after you pay for in effort and sincerity. If in the this life or the next I teach an art that is close to my heart, this is how I'd do it. And on a personal note; that was a damn hard lesson.

I sincerely do not believe that any of these aspects are inherently incompatible. It's just that good teaching skills, good martial arts skills and good business skills are all totally different skills. I think that the old "sincere teaching vs. money grubbing" argument is a false dichotomy. There may be some issues that conflict but there is not one single bit of teaching advice or experience I have related so far that comes into conflict in any way with personally treasuring and respecting the art.

[johnwang]

When your rice bowl is empty...

On the other hand, sometime the money that you charge for your lesson is not because you need that money to buy your new born baby's milk. It's because no teacher should teach for free. It makes no sense that you had paid big money to your teacher for your lesson, but when you become a teacher, you teach for free.

[bailewen]

And nobody really values anything they got for free anyways. How is the student expected to cherish the teaching if it didn't cost anything.

It doesn't have to be money of course but they gotta pay.

[JonathanArthur]

IMO, the attitudes expressed above, Dmitri included, go a long way to explaining why it is generally perceived as damn near impossible to make a living as a martial arts teacher.

Not impossible, but if you are run of the mill, either the art or yourself will suffer. This is nothing for us to get worked up about, it applies to all professions.

From my perspective, there certainly is that difference but it's hardly a "major" difference. In fact, I consider it barely relevant. You can not take your students presence for granted. If you think that having them captive in your class is an advantage, you are gravely misinformed. I am just not seeing what is the significance of a student body of those there by choice. My students may not have the choice to simply stop attending but a room full of student who really don't want to be there is a fucking nightmare. They outnumber me 55 or more to 1. You must motivate them to want to be there. I can't see how teaching a martial arts class with the attitude that you have some sort of advantage because they came to you out of choice. If you do not work hard at becoming a good teacher, they will leave the class out of choice as well.

All the same rules apply.

If you fail in an ESL classroom, you will have to endure havoc.
If you fail in a martial arts class room you will have to endure a lack of students.

Yes, motivating the students is vital. If I teach in a classroom it may be that the onus is on me to inspire the motivation in them and to draw this out steadily. Or I might be able to stir their passion for learning and have them behave as if they are approaching me, in which case they offer a display of willingness which MUST be appreciated, revered and reciprocated.
I only ask my students to take responsibility for "their" part in the learning process. And less so of course of a six year old child, they have time to learn these lessons.

[neijia_boxer]

When I used to teach at Parks and Recreation, in a Karate school, and at a Massage Institute I always taught things they could easily grasp: first few classes.....

1. a basic set of joint loosing exercises for neck. shoulders, waist, knees- major joints in body.
2. a Chan su jin exercise like basic circle often seen in Chen taiji.
3. tai ji walking- forward, back, and sideways
4. adding the hand move ment to the stepping like- brush knee, part horse mane, repulse moneky and wave hand lke clouds
5. close with a patting massage to arms and legs, face, head, neck, lower back.
6. close with tan tien breathing exercise.

[Tesshu]

And nobody really values anything they got for free anyways. How is the student expected to cherish the teaching if it didn't cost anything.

It doesn't have to be money of course but they gotta pay.

+10

Another thing: If you limit the access to something people will want it more. Think of waiting lists and so on. "If I have to wait for it, it must be something worth it, right?!"
There was a time a few weeks ago, when so many people were coming to my school that I had to tell them that the few classes I teach were too full. Then I put this on my website as well and guess what: The phonecalls doubled in quantity. "Will you accept students?" and so on. I deleted this from my website and things quieted down again. Now everything is back to normal.

Like the movies say: You had to kneel 5 days before you were allowed to enter the temple.

So if you need more students just tell everyone that you accept students not on a regular basis or something like it.

[Hank Fist]

Sylkworm, are you serious?
How long have you been training?

Please, show some respect and master your style before even thinking of TEACHING IT.
So many funny people like you have been killing the tai chi name for years now.

I know you are doing this to help your local gym, but please consider! Better use your time to organize some seminar with actual competent Taiji Masters.
If you think you are good enough, then creat your own taiji branch... something like " Founder of the Pijamas Taiji Lineage".

I don't get it, do you know Sylkworm, or are these all just rude assumptions based on nothing?

[lee5]

interesting discussion so far ... and appreciate bailewen's perspective from teaching esl ...
some of my classmates recently got a gig teaching at local city rec center. And we've been talking about approp class structures, teaching strategies, etc.
For me, it brought up the notion of distinguishing between a survey course, an introductory course, and beginning the real meat of the work.
I've tended to confuse the survey w/ introduction in my thinking.

most of the rec center people are just doing this for fun, interested in getting some idea what this CMA stuff is about. and that seems like a fine thing. and really, one should be able to give them something of value, even they never do a bit of tjq again after the course. which is different from starting someone in one the basic exercises, or starting to teach form, etc.

[Sylkworm]

Obviously, I am lacking in teaching experience compared to other posters here. However, my Sifu always used to say "never offer more to your students than they are willing to give".

I forgot who mentioned the hippie Taiji-health lady, but I think that would present an interesting teaching challenge. I have to wonder: *is* there a way to teach correct Taiji without resorting to combat scenarios? It would seem like it should be possible. I'll have to think about it.

The reason I think so is because I occasionally run into students on the flip-side of this coin in Kung Fu and Jujitsu: i.e. the ones that are usually young men that only want to learn combat application. If it doesn't have immediate applicability in a ring or octagon, they think it's just fluff and lose all interest. These students are also frustrating because they are often very good fighters, experienced in other MA styles, and it's hard to actually prove anything with them without actually kicking their ass at least once. Very often, if you mention "Qi" or "Dantien" to them, they just run for the hills because they think you're trying get all mystical. So I have to talk about breathing, rooting, centering, posture, connection, sensitivity, and Jing in terms of bio-mechanics and physics.

[johnwang]

if you mention "Qi" or "Dantien" to them, they just run for the hills because they think you're trying get all mystical. So I have to talk about breathing, rooting, centering, posture, connection, sensitivity, and Jing in terms of bio-mechanics and physics.

When I taught my Taiji students, I just asked them to do it without mention those terms. After they could do it, it would become just "common sense". One day when they teach their students, they will ask their students "just do it" without mention those terms.

[Ben]

I forgot who mentioned the hippie Taiji-health lady, but I think that would present an interesting teaching challenge. I have to wonder: *is* there a way to teach correct Taiji without resorting to combat scenarios? It would seem like it should be possible. I'll have to think about it.

Sure its possable. Poeple that are going Tai chi for health for the most part aren't interested in fighting or applications. So just correct them like anyone else but don't show applications or work on PH if they aren't interested. If they become interested later you can show them that stuff and they will be ready for it. If they ask why a move is done a certain way then you can show the application or a PH demo. I think most of the time they will get into some PH just becasue its a lot of fun.

[Tesshu]

if you mention "Qi" or "Dantien" to them, they just run for the hills because they think you're trying get all mystical. So I have to talk about breathing, rooting, centering, posture, connection, sensitivity, and Jing in terms of bio-mechanics and physics.

When I taught my Taiji students, I just asked them to do it without mention those terms. After they could do it, it would become just "common sense". One day when they teach their students, they will ask their students "just do it" without mention those terms.

Sorry for asking, it seems to me that the concept of "Dantien" for example is vital for teaching Tai Chi Chuan. As I read in your other thread you don't work with that. How do you teach TCC and is it really TCC or a variation of your SC skills? (no offense, just curious)

[bailewen]

Tesshu,

Exactly.

There is actually a school of thought that says that you must absolutely 100% get rid of all "fighting intent". I am reminded of Bob's recent post on "hidden masters, especially this response:

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=9257

There's also the issue of maturing through your training in solo forms and meditation to the point where the martial stuff is no longer as attractive as it was when you were young. Refining your use of force and self-control tends to become the main reason for training as opposed to "wanting a name" or being obsessed with fighting ability.

In my own training, Taiji anyways, not so much for Baji, there are all sort of metaphors or visualizations to help you correct your movements. The push hands aspect Ben alluded to is particularly pertinent. That is one of the greatest gifts of push hands. It provides a medium to explore correct movement without introducing any actual fighting. Good push hands is not fighting but it has nothing really incompatible with the real thing. It is just incomplete but it is still complete enough to provide an interactive format to correct movement. You can teach footwork and hand placement just as accurately through push hands as through sparring but without the extra baggage that may alienate some people. It's not enough for a future inheritor of the style but it's plenty for you average enthusiast.

Sorry for asking, it seems to me that the concept of "Dantien" for example is vital for teaching Tai Chi Chuan. As I read in your other thread you don't work with that. How do you teach TCC and is it really TCC or a variation of your SC skills? (no offense, just curious)

You could teach the concept without the term. If I sensed my "audience" was "allergic" to Chinese terminology I would just replace the term "dan tian" with the term "your center" and maybe explain where that was.