Xingyiquan for combat

[neijia_boxer]

I not really a Xingyiquan expert, I pretty much stopped at learning 5 elements fist, 12 animals, 3 hand cannons two man set, and 5 element 2 man set probably back in like 2001.

I do use Xingyiquan as my beginning warm-up for Baguazhang and Taijiquan practice.

However I concentrate mostly on some of the fists I think might actually work in combat:

pi- downward stop of a body punch or body kick
beng- counter to opponent strike
pao- block a high attack and counter punch
heng- weaved attack
tiger- offensive push/strike to opponents flank
horse- power strike to opponent
eagle-bear- powerful uppercut and downward strike
rooster-evasive footwork
water strider- evasive footwork

all others I consider less effective for combat-
tsuan (does make for a good grab and strike, but hard to use against a good striker)
dragon
monkey
swallow
snake
Tai bird

Are there a certain elements and animals you prefer? why?

[cerebus]

Pi as a downward chopping palm to the opponent's face or head, Beng as the most direct attack to the body, Tsuan as an upward angled thrust to the chin, Monkey as a sort of leaping Pi Chuan with the full bodyweight behind it, Swallow to close the distance and take the opponent down, some movements of our Phoenix form for defending and counterattacking against boxing combos...

[GrahamB]

One of the nice thins about Xingyi is that it's all effective for combat.... if you know how to use it

[fuga]

Monkey as a sort of leaping Pi Chuan with the full bodyweight behind it

My head can testify that this works.

-pete

[Daniel]

You can use anything in Xingyi for real life combat if you layer the practice for that purpose.

Pi, shock-wave into the brain or used at a slant against the neck/occipital region, Zuan, crushing the throat, etc. Also the question if all the training is done with and against intent to actually injure, maim or kill, if it´s done against multiple opponents and the yin-eye training is actively trained with this, done with weapons allowed, with anything in the surroundings allowed, if it´s done with stress testing, etc.

It´s also good to have a sense of how to balance the training in Xingyi with compassion and/or Middle Dantian-practices, as the style has a tendency to close the MDT and shut down emotions. Very useful in combat, not so great in everyday life and as a rounded human being.


D.

Sarcasm. Oh yeah, like that´ll work.

[neijia_boxer]

Monkey as a sort of leaping Pi Chuan with the full bodyweight behind it

My head can testify that this works.

-pete

that was funny. laughing in office

[jonathan.bluestein]

The only ones I've yet to use against a resisting opponent from another art are the snake and eagle, probably because I haven't trained them enough. I didn't have a chance to use exact swallow techniques, but I use its shen fa a lot. Tuo Xing (water strider) is my favourite animal. Together with Monkey, I find I commonly use these two the most.

However, can we really compare? Xing Yi animals can greatly differ between lineages :-O
Since they are naturally applicative (unlike the Wu Xing, which are sometimes used more for development of force vectors), I find that over the years, each teacher chose to emphasize different techniques within the movements of the animals he taught.

[GrahamB]

I find that the best thing with XingYi animals is to drill the shit out of them, then not try to do them in 2-man work, but just let what pops out pop out. The other day my sparring partner punched at my face and I just did Snake in a way I've never used it before and it worked. Thing is, I don't really like Snake

[cdobe]

I do use Xingyiquan as my beginning warm-up for Baguazhang and Taijiquan practice.

Xingyi is an excellent warmup for Taiji...

[mixjourneyman]

I like beng and horse. Straight punch and round punch.
I have knocked someone out with zuan before, but it is not something I have done often.

[Josealb]

Matt, its a real shame that the xingyi you were exposed to was not as combative as you wanted. Everything is applicable in xingyi, you just have to train the delivery system for it. Footwork, angles, baits, setups, etc. Its all in there.

[neijia_boxer]

Matt, its a real shame that the xingyi you were exposed to was not as combative as you wanted. Everything is applicable in xingyi, you just have to train the delivery system for it. Footwork, angles, baits, setups, etc. Its all in there.

yeap, eventually I'll dive deeper into it, i only scratched the surface with a few teachers here and there.

[cerebus]

just let what pops out pop out. The other day my sparring partner punched at my face and I just did Snake in a way I've never used it before

So, you're saying that when your partner punched you, your snake "just popped out"?!

[JAB]

Do not think of techniques, but of energies. Focusing just on a technique is finite. Focusing on the energy trained is infinite:
Pi- Downward energy
Tsuan - Rising / drilling
Beng - Forward
Pao - Inside - out
Heng - Outside - in

Animals are simply amalgamations of the energies.

Cheers
JAB

[cerebus]

Do not think of techniques, but of energies. Focusing just on a technique is finite. Focusing on the energy trained is infinite:
Pi- Downward energy
Tsuan - Rising / drilling
Beng - Forward
Pao - Inside - out
Heng - Outside - in

Animals are simply amalgamations of the energies.

Cheers
JAB

Which is fine after the "techniques" have been learned & mastered, but one needs to begin with technique so as to advance to more conceptual levels. "Learn the form, master the form, forget the form..." but learn and master the form first!