Ba Gua basic palms

[SPJ]

What are considered as basic palms practice in your style of ba gua.

http://www.52tjq.cn/newspaper/news3690.html

a link to some info of 8 old palms of liang style.

http://www.52tjq.cn/newspaper/news3683.html

some info about yin 64 postures.

[SPJ]

单换掌、盖手掌、背身掌、顺势掌、披身掌、顺步掌、揉身掌，平穿掌

Liang style 8 old palms are considered the basic or first to practice.

1. single exchange palm.

2. cover hand palm.

3. reverse back palm.

4. followed posture palm.

5. cover body palm.

6. followed step palm.

7. soft body palm.

8.horizontal piercing palm.

English translation may be varied.

[SPJ]

单换掌、顺势掌、双换掌、背身掌、磨身掌、转身掌、回身掌、翻身掌

Cheng style:

1. single exchange palm.

2. followed posture palm.

3. double exchange palm.

4. reverse back palm.

5. grinding body palm.

6. turning body palm.

7. return body palm.

8. reverse body palm.

[SPJ]

http://www.tudou.com/programs/view/wB_0kFpa2VA/

Cheng style 8 big palms.

[mixjourneyman]

Actually, Cheng style's basic palms are
1: fierce tiger descends the mountain
2: big roc spreads its wings
3: lion opens its mouth
4: white ape presents the fruit
5: embrace the moon to the bosom
6: white snake spits out its tongue
7: point to heaven and drill to the earth
8: green dragon stretches its claws

Then the eight big palms are the ones you mentioned.

The basic palms are the very most basic foundational training that combines palm shapes and walking, the eight big palms are slightly more advanced, and then later people learn the lian huan and the sixty four, and perhaps the linear routine and swimming body.

[edededed]

Well, I think, SPJ is trying to compare the basic moving palms (not stationary palms), but yeah, the basic (stationary) palms of Cheng Youxin are:

猛虎出山 (Fierce tiger leaves the mountain)
大鵬展翅 (Big roc spreads its wings)
獅子張口 (Lion opens its mouth)
懷中抱月 (Embrace the moon in the bosom)
白猿獻桃 (White ape presents the peach)
黑熊探臂 (Black bear stretches its arms)
指天插地 (Point to heaven and insert in earth)
青龍探爪 (Green dragon stretches its claws)

Sun Zhijun uses different terminology and has slightly different palms:

下沉掌 (Down sinking palms)
雙托轉掌 (Double upholding turning palms)
合抱掌 (Together embracing palms)
七星轉掌 (Seven star turning palms)
雙撞轉掌 (Double crashing turning palms)
陰陽轉掌 (Yin yang turning palms)
外開轉掌 (External opening turning palms)
推轉掌 (Pushing turning palms)

The basic (moving) palms often vary per Cheng substyle; the first few (4-5 or so?) always seem similar, however. (The one SPJ posted seems to be Sun Zhijun's version.)

Liang style sometimes uses different terminology for its old eight palms set; another (my) variation is:

單換掌 (Single change palm)
雙換掌 (Double change palm)
背身掌 (Back body palm)
劈手掌 (Chopping hand palm)
順勢掌 (Following posture palm)
順步掌 (Following step palm)
下塌掌 (Down collapsing palm)
平穿掌 (Horizontal piercing palm)

However, these are essentially the same as the ones SPJ posted (in a different order, with different names).

[meeks]

I checked out the video posted by SPJ - I thought the music was nice.

as for the 8 basic palms, keep in mind that every school has a slightly different set. Although if I saw photos, they might be the same postures different names (perhaps).
in my Cheng we have:
xia ta zhang
tuo tian zhang
ping tui zhang
shi zi zhang zui
sa (scatter) zhang (looking at the names above, 'point to heaven and insert to earth' exists within sa zhang, so perhaps they're just different names)
ying yang yu
bai yuan shan tao
qing long tan jiao

[fisherman]

For Gao Style Bagua (Yizong)

Single Palm Change

Reverse Palm Change

1. Snake form, smooth force palm

2. Dragon form, piercing hand palm

3. Returning body, strike the tiger palm

4. Swallow, overturning covering hand palm

5. Turn the body over the back palm

6. Twist the body searching horse palm

7. Overturn the body, through the back palm

8. Stop the body, move and hook palm

[edededed]

The subject is getting all mixed up...

Basic Moving Palms (i.e. techniques on the circle): SPJ and fisherman (Chris) mentioned these from Cheng, Liang, and Gao style (interesting that Gao style has 10?). (I mentioned another version of these for Liang style.)

Stationary Palms (i.e. holding postures on the circle): mix and meeks mentioned their variants of these from Cheng style. (I gave the Chinese characters for the same set that mix mentioned (#6 is different, though) and another set from Cheng style.)

The problem is that the names for these two sets (basic moving palms and stationary palms) differ from teacher to teacher; so we don't really know what people are talking about when they say "basic palms" or "old eight palms" or "mother palms" or whatever.

[meeks]

8 basic palms generally refers to the small 8 palms (xiao ba zhang)

lao ba zhang or ba ma zhang are usually the same thing with in a conversation with people.

although if you hear 'lao ma zhang' it might mean getting some 'hand' from an old hag....

[gerard]

In the Liang Zhenpu-Li Zi Ming-Wang Tong "Liang style" lineage the 8MP are similar to the one's listed here:

https://www.internalartsinternational.c ... ng-part-1/

https://www.internalartsinternational.c ... ng-part-2/

Ours are (and performed in the following order):

1. Downward sinking palm
2. Heaven Holding Palm
3. Yin-Yang Fish Palm
4. Pierce to Heaven and Stab the Earth Palm
5. Spear Upholding Palm
6. Rooster Heads Palm
7. Moon Embracing Palm
8. Lion Rolls the Ball Palm

[Sea.Wolf.Forge]

For Gao Style Bagua (Yizong)

Single Palm Change

Reverse Palm Change

1. Snake form, smooth force palm

2. Dragon form, piercing hand palm

3. Returning body, strike the tiger palm

4. Swallow, overturning covering hand palm

5. Turn the body over the back palm

6. Twist the body searching horse palm

7. Overturn the body, through the back palm

8. Stop the body, move and hook palm

My people.

[everything]

it's very fascinating. it would seem like 8 static "mother" palms would probably be the same. OTOH, it seems like from the lists above, it's mostly the same 8-10 or 12 ... which kind of makes me just think to do all 10 - 12 instead of 8. (no background in BGZ).

gerard, what is Rooster Heads Palm? can you describe it?

[D_Glenn]

As Eded… mentioned: people are posting names of Static Postures (either held in Zhan Zhuang or used while circle walking aka Xing Zhuang) and they’re posting names of Palm Changes: the 1-7 movement forms that are used to change directions on the circle.

Just speaking on the topic a holding static postures, a person should really just practice 1 of the 8 (or actually 11 since some of the names above are low, middle and high Basin Postures) for at least a year because that’s roughly how long it takes to get all the way through the 4 processes:
1. the 'Fluid (sweat) Cleansing Process' （水津经 Shui Jin Jing)
2. the 'Blood Muscle changing Process' （血筋经 Xue Jin Jing)
3. the 'Fascia and Tendon changing Process' （易筋经 Yi Jin Jing), and
4. the 'Marrow Washing Process' (洗髓经 Xi Sui Jing).

Number 1. Can occur in a few days, so that’s measured on a weekly basis.
Number 2 is a monthly basis
Number 3 is 3 months
Number 4 takes a year to happen. Or rather after a week #1 happens, after 4 weeks #2 starts to happen; after 12 weeks #3; and #3 is what causes #4 to happen because your stronger tendons are putting greater flex stress on your bones, stimulating your bones to become stronger.

It’s based on our cell death and replication, roughly how long it takes for cells to die off, be replaced, live their lifespan under the daily conditions of the posture that you’re imposing on them, and then pass that on to the next generation.
If you really want to get a full change in your body you should do 3 years of a single posture.

We typically want to start everyone on the Lion Holds the Ball/ Opens it’s Mouth, because that will swell the major muscle groups and expand the fascia that surrounds them and allows the network or web- like structure of the fascia to fill in any gaps or holes.
Only after that would you want to switch to something like the “Throw open the Shutters to look at the Moon” posture. Which takes the full and healthy fascia and stretches it out. Gradually lengthening it over the years.


.

[G. Matthew Webb]

We typically want to start everyone on the Lion Holds the Ball/ Opens it’s Mouth, because that will swell the major muscle groups and expand the fascia that surrounds them and allows the network or web- like structure of the fascia to fill in any gaps or holes.
Only after that would you want to switch to something like the “Throw open the Shutters to look at the Moon” posture. Which takes the full and healthy fascia and stretches it out. Gradually lengthening it over the years.
.

What is the "Throw open the Shutters to look at the Moon" posture?