Taiji in Shanghai

[golden-tree]

I've met Shen Tiegen just last Sunday in Frankfurt/Germany, where he is currently living. Shen is a very nice person. We've practiced tuishou, dalü and free wrestling together for about three hours. He is very open to play, but not very open to discuss the basic training. Only after I've indicated Wu style indoor exercises myself, were we able to compare and discuss them a little. He demonstrated some interesting forms he had learned, like the san huang pao chui, lan cai hua or the double sword form that he learned fro Wu Yinghua. He also showed chicken stepping from Xinyi.
I would say, that if you visit him once in order to learn some exercises to incorporate into your own practice, you will be very disappointed, because he is not going to show you any. You will have to stay with him and train with him for some time in order to be trained properly.

Where are you located at, golden_tree?

Thanks for your reply!

Frankfurt is 1 1/2 hour drive from me.

I just thought it would be nice to meet a skilled ima-artist just to see some of his skills/movements. Im not really seeking for new forms or moves.

[Antony Wood]

Hello,

I trained under master Shen for over a year in Shanghai before he moved to Germany. He is an excellent teacher with amazing skills and understanding of martial arts. I HIGHLY recommend him. To visit and train with him is worth anyones while, and to become his student is lucky indeed!

Antony Wood

[Shanghaijay]

Can you say something about his training? I think the Wu Tai Chi is his main branch but for me as a Xing Yi Quan Student the other Stuff sounds very interesting too. Especially a view of another Xinyi branch

One good way to find out is to go to his upcoming seminar in Berlin.

http://rumsoakedfist.org/viewtopic.php?f=5&p=159510

Jay

[gzregorz]

I've met Shen Tiegen just last Sunday in Frankfurt/Germany, where he is currently living. Shen is a very nice person. We've practiced tuishou, dalü and free wrestling together for about three hours. He is very open to play, but not very open to discuss the basic training. Only after I've indicated Wu style indoor exercises myself, were we able to compare and discuss them a little. He demonstrated some interesting forms he had learned, like the san huang pao chui, lan cai hua or the double sword form that he learned fro Wu Yinghua. He also showed chicken stepping from Xinyi.
I would say, that if you visit him once in order to learn some exercises to incorporate into your own practice, you will be very disappointed, because he is not going to show you any. You will have to stay with him and train with him for some time in order to be trained properly.

Where are you located at, golden_tree?

I'd kill to spend 3 hours with Shen.

In China it's considered an honor just to touch the teacher upon meeting them.

Chris does have a point though, 1 lesson isn't a lot. Even if you go to pro boxing gym the first lesson is probably just going to be skipping rope.

[gzregorz]

If I were Golden I would commute once a month. Over time that would be a lot of TC. Once you start training with Shen he really pours it on.

I'll post his bio later.

[Haoran]

I've met Shen Tiegen just last Sunday in Frankfurt/Germany, where he is currently living. Shen is a very nice person. We've practiced tuishou, dalü and free wrestling together for about three hours. He is very open to play, but not very open to discuss the basic training. Only after I've indicated Wu style indoor exercises myself, were we able to compare and discuss them a little. He demonstrated some interesting forms he had learned, like the san huang pao chui, lan cai hua or the double sword form that he learned fro Wu Yinghua. He also showed chicken stepping from Xinyi.
I would say, that if you visit him once in order to learn some exercises to incorporate into your own practice, you will be very disappointed, because he is not going to show you any. You will have to stay with him and train with him for some time in order to be trained properly.

Where are you located at, golden_tree?

I'd kill to spend 3 hours with Shen.

In China it's considered an honor just to touch the teacher upon meeting them.

Chris does have a point though, 1 lesson isn't a lot. Even if you go to pro boxing gym the first lesson is probably just going to be skipping rope.

Well, to put a different slant on this. I was graciously introduced to Mr. Shen by ShanghaiJay after connecting with him on this (the other) board and shortly after arriving in China. Unfortunately, I was looking for something else. Qi gong, and/or a Gong training. Most of you guys are strong from birth and therefore are seeking fighting techniques to build your martial skills. I, born not strong at all and seek gongs, and other exercises to build internally. I did not see anything from Mr. Shen during our meeting that was what I was looking for so I passed, not at all into fighting. Later to hook up with my bagua teacher and love the basics from that style. Circle walking (among other things) was/is it for me. So, it depends on what you are looking for as to whether a teacher fits or not.

Thanks to ShanghaiJay for taking the time to meet and interpret for us at our meeting.

[gzregorz]

That's fair enough Bill. Obviously everyone has to figure out what they're looking for before deciding on who to train with.

For me the experience was quite the opposite. I originally came from an IMA school that emphasized qigong, neigong, health and meditation. Martial applications were becoming more and more secondary. Partly due to the students the teacher was attracting but also due the direction he wanted to go into at the time. (I have no idea what they're doing these days. I've moved on.)

So for me training with someone like Shen who was willing not only in train me one on one in push hands and the martial side of taiji but also willing to show me how to understand how to train any martial art was the the best thing that ever happened for my martial arts training. I've progressed in martial arts a lot more than I ever would have done had I not met Shen.

There are a lot of things Shen has to offer. But for those who like their taiji to have a little more "punch" to it he is the teacher for you.

Here is his bio for anyone interested. It's from a few years ago, but you get the idea.

MR. SHEN TIEGEN is a twenty-five-year practitioner of Wu style
taijiquan from Shanghai.

Mr. Shen has taught
taijiquan in Shanghai for more than ten years and has taught
workshops in Switzerland since 2005 as well as the US and Belgium since 2007. He brings to his teaching extreme patience, a true love for the art of taijiquan, and rare
skill as a martial artist.

Shen Tiegen began his study of martial arts with Shuiajiao at the
age of seven. China at this time was in the midst of the Cultural
Revolution and life was chaotic. Fights at the time were
commonplace. A boy of small stature and little strength he was
often bullied and subsequently had to learn to defend himself
against multiple opponents and people much larger then him. As a
result he developed his tingjin to a high level and his knowledge of
the moves and leverage became quite high.

At the age of 15 he began his study of Ten Animals Six Harmonies
Xinyi Quan while continuing to study Shuijiao. The training was
rigorous and started early in the morning. All free time was spent
training and studies were often neglected.

In his early 20's in addition to his Xinyi training he was exposed
to Ge Dou, Shuijiao and Qinna of the Chinese Military system. This
is a very simple yet effective system.

In 1980, at the age of 25 Shen Tiegen was introduced to Qian Cao Qun,
a noted disciple of Ma Yueliang who also studied with students of Wu Jian Quan, and began training in the Wu
Jianquan Style. He became a disciple of Qian Cao Qun and was later
picked by Ma Yueliang to become an indoor student under Ma Yueliang
and Wu Yin Hua, where he trained with them for over ten years until
the passing of Wu Yin Hua.

Shen Tiegen has practiced with police, military and martial artists
from many styles and countries. Because of high level of skill and
exposure to the fighting styles of China he is recognized in Wu circles in
Shanghai as one of the top practitioners of taiji and
tuishou.

[Haoran]

That's fair enough Bill. Obviously everyone has to figure out what they're looking for before deciding on who to train with.

For me the experience was quite the opposite. I originally came from an IMA school that emphasized qigong, neigong, health and meditation. Martial applications were becoming more and more secondary. Partly due to the students the teacher was attracting but also due the direction he wanted to go into at the time. (I have no idea what they're doing these days. I've moved on.)

So for me training with someone like Shen who was willing not only in train me one on one in push hands and the martial side of taiji but also willing to show me how to understand how to train any martial art was the the best thing that ever happened for my martial arts training. I've progressed in martial arts a lot more than I ever would have done had I not met Shen.

There are a lot of things Shen has to offer. But for those who like their taiji to have a little more "punch" to it he is the teacher for you.

Here is his bio for anyone interested. It's from a few years ago, but you get the idea.

MR. SHEN TIEGEN is a twenty-five-year practitioner of Wu style
taijiquan from Shanghai.

Mr. Shen has taught
taijiquan in Shanghai for more than ten years and has taught
workshops in Switzerland since 2005 as well as the US and Belgium since 2007. He brings to his teaching extreme patience, a true love for the art of taijiquan, and rare
skill as a martial artist.

Shen Tiegen began his study of martial arts with Shuiajiao at the
age of seven. China at this time was in the midst of the Cultural
Revolution and life was chaotic. Fights at the time were
commonplace. A boy of small stature and little strength he was
often bullied and subsequently had to learn to defend himself
against multiple opponents and people much larger then him. As a
result he developed his tingjin to a high level and his knowledge of
the moves and leverage became quite high.

At the age of 15 he began his study of Ten Animals Six Harmonies
Xinyi Quan while continuing to study Shuijiao. The training was
rigorous and started early in the morning. All free time was spent
training and studies were often neglected.

In his early 20's in addition to his Xinyi training he was exposed
to Ge Dou, Shuijiao and Qinna of the Chinese Military system. This
is a very simple yet effective system.

In 1980, at the age of 25 Shen Tiegen was introduced to Qian Cao Qun,
a noted disciple of Ma Yueliang who also studied with students of Wu Jian Quan, and began training in the Wu
Jianquan Style. He became a disciple of Qian Cao Qun and was later
picked by Ma Yueliang to become an indoor student under Ma Yueliang
and Wu Yin Hua, where he trained with them for over ten years until
the passing of Wu Yin Hua.

Shen Tiegen has practiced with police, military and martial artists
from many styles and countries. Because of high level of skill and
exposure to the fighting styles of China he is recognized in Wu circles in
Shanghai as one of the top practitioners of taiji and
tuishou.

Yes, that's quite an impressive bio. Windows of opportunity often come and go as seen by Mr. Shen's leaving Shanghai moving to Germany. He was right in front of me at one time but as mentioned at that time I needed something else. Should I get to the point of getting out of this lifelong physical funk, I'm sure I'll regret not snatching up the opportunity when I had it.

Best,

[Sean]

Here is Mr. Shen's homepage:
http://www.shentiegen.com/

Mr. Shen is indeed an incredible martial artist. I envy all you guys (including my damn brother!) who got to train with him intensively day after day in China.
Fortunately for me Germany is closer to France than Shanghai, and I am planning on hosting Mr. Shen here in Lille for a workshop focusing on his chin na and shuai jiao work in October. I have a group of ving tsun students, but I feel, like gzregorz, that Mr. Shen's approach can improve anyone's martial arts.
He may be reluctant to show certain things to just anybody during a first encounter, but if you stick by him he is a very passionate teacher with a tremendous amount of knowledge to offer.

[gzregorz]

I have a group of ving tsun students, but I feel, like gzregorz, that Mr. Shen's approach can improve anyone's martial arts.
He may be reluctant to show certain things to just anybody during a first encounter, but if you stick by him he is a very passionate teacher with a tremendous amount of knowledge to offer.

Of course I agree. Back when Mo was training with him he actually suggested that he just call it the Shen style since a lot of what he teaches can apply to a lot of arts.

That workshop sounds like a blast!

[Shanghaijay]

I've met Shen Tiegen just last Sunday in Frankfurt/Germany, where he is currently living. Shen is a very nice person. We've practiced tuishou, dalü and free wrestling together for about three hours. He is very open to play, but not very open to discuss the basic training. Only after I've indicated Wu style indoor exercises myself, were we able to compare and discuss them a little. He demonstrated some interesting forms he had learned, like the san huang pao chui, lan cai hua or the double sword form that he learned fro Wu Yinghua. He also showed chicken stepping from Xinyi.
I would say, that if you visit him once in order to learn some exercises to incorporate into your own practice, you will be very disappointed, because he is not going to show you any. You will have to stay with him and train with him for some time in order to be trained properly.

Not to be the devils advocate but if you don't speak Chinese, discussions are going to be at best on a very rudimentary level. Moreover, the best way to really understand Shen and what he is trying to teach is to touch him. Words are so far away from the experience it is ridiculous to assume that you can really learn anything from him by talking. You have to stay with anyone a while in order to be trained properly. This is just common sense.

Jay

[kreese]

It doesn't look like Mr. Shen is a big guy, so being naturally strong from birth is kind of irrelevant to learning his gong fu, no? He is one of very few teachers I've seen that shows incredible softness regardless of the context. The vids that used to be up of Greg and Danny throwing (albeit demo speed) punches really showed something unique. One touch and the attacker was imbalanced, and the follow-up would be uncontested by nature of the attacker being in a horrible position, not just because he parried the first blow and could go rat-a-tat-tat on a lame demo partner. Incredible economy of motion is what I guess I'm trying to say. Like watching Tim "Guaranteed BTDT" Cartmell sparring his guys - only the minimum of effort and he gets the throw.

[cdobe]

I've met Shen Tiegen just last Sunday in Frankfurt/Germany, where he is currently living. Shen is a very nice person. We've practiced tuishou, dalü and free wrestling together for about three hours. He is very open to play, but not very open to discuss the basic training. Only after I've indicated Wu style indoor exercises myself, were we able to compare and discuss them a little. He demonstrated some interesting forms he had learned, like the san huang pao chui, lan cai hua or the double sword form that he learned fro Wu Yinghua. He also showed chicken stepping from Xinyi.
I would say, that if you visit him once in order to learn some exercises to incorporate into your own practice, you will be very disappointed, because he is not going to show you any. You will have to stay with him and train with him for some time in order to be trained properly.

Not to be the devils advocate but if you don't speak Chinese, discussions are going to be at best on a very rudimentary level. Moreover, the best way to really understand Shen and what he is trying to teach is to touch him. Words are so far away from the experience it is ridiculous to assume that you can really learn anything from him by talking. You have to stay with anyone a while in order to be trained properly. This is just common sense.

Jay

Jay,
first of all, I'm not looking for a teacher. I went to see Shen out of curiosity, because of all the positive things you and others had to say about him. I am already very capable of performing the forms, shou fa and supplementary exercises as transmitted by Ma Yueliang. Nothing he did, except for the double sword form, was new to me.
Second, as I have clearly written, I've practiced with him. I've mostly asked him with my hands, in a respectful way of course. BTW, he's in my region at the moment and was in my town just yesterday. I haven't seen him once.
Third, I have never lived in China, but I did study Chinese in the past. I'm not good at it, but we made ourselves understood without any bigger problems.
Lastly, you should drop your elitism. I remember your words: some of us - meaning yourself - have seen and felt more than others. Guess what? You haven't. I'm not sure about the other way around.
You're not helping your honourable teacher by acting that way.

@Kreese
Shen stresses this very often. At about 114.4 lbs he says, that anything else wouldn't work for him. So he emphasises the qualities of softness and change. He also often talks about not having any techniques at your mind, while doing free work. His Tuishou is very non competitive in nature. Unlike other teachers of this branch, the fixed Tuishou routines are not very challenging and comparatively slow. He says Tuishou is not for pushing each other. It's all about cooperatively training listening with different parts of your body. When the other person pressures, there is a change and an application.
As for the offbalancing at the first touch, with this soft approach, it all depends on the commitment and the root of the puncher, of course.

[Haoran]

It doesn't look like Mr. Shen is a big guy, so being naturally strong from birth is kind of irrelevant to learning his gong fu, no? He is one of very few teachers I've seen that shows incredible softness regardless of the context. The vids that used to be up of Greg and Danny throwing (albeit demo speed) punches really showed something unique. One touch and the attacker was imbalanced, and the follow-up would be uncontested by nature of the attacker being in a horrible position, not just because he parried the first blow and could go rat-a-tat-tat on a lame demo partner. Incredible economy of motion is what I guess I'm trying to say. Like watching Tim "Guaranteed BTDT" Cartmell sparring his guys - only the minimum of effort and he gets the throw.

This, for me, is more than about size. Without going into it, it's about chronic health issues where a "gong" is a much better choice at this time than "fighting" or "techniques".

[kreese]

Hey, I dig. Health is a concern for me as well. But I do hope once you get your energy up you will entertain the idea of taking it up a notch, if only because external can reinforce internal and vice versa. I played old man taiji in my 20s because that was all I was taught, and for someone with a pretty wrecked system it was just what I needed...but after a while I stagnated, didn't want to "exhaust" myself, and ended up sort of tired as a result. But if you are working with injuries and chronic issues, you will do what you can. I didn't mean to imply you weren't doing it right, maybe more in awe of this smaller man making it work for himself.

I myself tend to set the bar a little low due to habit, something I'm trying to change. Every day I am finding out more and more about the miraculous powers of the human body and mind to change, adapt, overcome and continue growing. I'm doing lots of great reading on neuroplasticity and exercise, Chinese herbal medicine and theory.