London this Friday

Post internal martial arts seminars, events, retreats, tournaments, and informal meet-ups here.

London this Friday

Postby RobP2 on Wed May 18, 2011 3:03 am

I'm down in London this Friday, meeting up at 7pm in Kings Cross with H Won Gim http://www.nytaichi.com/contents.htm who is over for a weekend workshop - details from Alan Braunton [email protected]

I can get down earlier if anyone is around for meeting up?

cheers

Rob
"If your life seems dull and boring - it is" - Derek & Clive
http://www.systemauk.com/
User avatar
RobP2
Great Old One
 
Posts: 3152
Joined: Fri Jan 23, 2009 4:05 am
Location: UK

Re: London this Friday

Postby cloudz on Wed May 18, 2011 5:38 am

Hey Rob,

I can't meet up, but I'd love to know what's going on in this clip of his.. Maybe you could ask him to demo this on you and provide you/us with a tangible explanation as to why it isn't 'fake' - which is a message they seem to be interested in getting across going by what they write below it. he looks like a capable guy, but the clip is a bit too far fetched and wierd for me.. what's going on ?

http://www.nytaichi.com/sparringvideo.htm
The old man calmly said: “Among the mighty are those who are mightier. In martial arts, no one presumes to praise his own ability. But because you are young, you don't know the scale of the world, and are unaware of how ridiculous you are. Why be upset?”
cloudz
Great Old One
 
Posts: 2403
Joined: Fri Jun 06, 2008 3:00 am
Location: London UK

Re: London this Friday

Postby RobP2 on Wed May 18, 2011 7:12 am

Hi George

It's a social in a bar on Friday so don't know that there'll be any hands on (I cant make the weekend workshop) but I will ask! I did have some footage of Vincent Chu penging me around form a few years back, but I never did the hoppy thing. I suspect it's partly down to how they are taught to absorbe the force

cheers

Rob
"If your life seems dull and boring - it is" - Derek & Clive
http://www.systemauk.com/
User avatar
RobP2
Great Old One
 
Posts: 3152
Joined: Fri Jan 23, 2009 4:05 am
Location: UK

Re: London this Friday

Postby Mello on Wed May 18, 2011 8:18 am

I'm always up for a bit of sparring or sharing ideas... I'm not very good though Haha
Mello
Huajing
 
Posts: 385
Joined: Thu Apr 14, 2011 7:27 am
Location: Bath

Re: London this Friday

Postby mrtoes on Wed May 18, 2011 8:59 am

Hey Rob

Should be able to meet up but only around 6ish. If you'd like to get a bit of training in may I suggest Lincoln's Inn Fields which is near Holborn and on the Piccadilly Line from Kings Cross, otherwise a swift beer may be procured anywhere in the vicinity of Kings Cross? Of course that might all be a bit rushed for you...

Matthew.
Last edited by mrtoes on Wed May 18, 2011 9:03 am, edited 1 time in total.
mrtoes
Wuji
 
Posts: 1364
Joined: Thu Jun 05, 2008 5:06 am
Location: Central America

Re: London this Friday

Postby Azer on Wed May 18, 2011 12:04 pm

Sounds interesting! I may swing by for a beer or two! But I only get off work around 7'ish.
"All around, dude, try to imagine cold, cause the van is kinda hot, wrap the rat in tacky coat" - Duke Duke
Azer
Wuji
 
Posts: 943
Joined: Tue May 13, 2008 2:28 am
Location: London

Re: London this Friday

Postby RobP2 on Thu May 19, 2011 5:57 am

Thanks for the replies chaps - had a slight change of plan so won't be able to get down earlier now, maybe next time!

cheers
Rob
"If your life seems dull and boring - it is" - Derek & Clive
http://www.systemauk.com/
User avatar
RobP2
Great Old One
 
Posts: 3152
Joined: Fri Jan 23, 2009 4:05 am
Location: UK

Re: London this Friday

Postby RobP2 on Mon May 23, 2011 3:27 am

cloudz wrote:Hey Rob,

I can't meet up, but I'd love to know what's going on in this clip of his.. Maybe you could ask him to demo this on you and provide you/us with a tangible explanation as to why it isn't 'fake' - which is a message they seem to be interested in getting across going by what they write below it. he looks like a capable guy, but the clip is a bit too far fetched and wierd for me.. what's going on ?



Hi George

Asked HWK about this and also got to push with him a few times. To paraphrase (my bad if any of this is wrong) - the dynamic push hands is not really about pushing but learning about "borrowing force". The front foot is loaded, back foot empty. The idea is to maintain the structure(with no movement) while pressure / force is applied. The force should be felt in the back foot. As the pressure increases of course it gets much harder to maintain the structure and the internal force builds up. The structure is maintained as the force is removed, then the pressure in the body is released with a sharp push - hence the bouncy legs.

From my observations everyone reacts in a different way - some quite weird looking (which they acknowledge). HWK could certainly push me back from the position he set me in - but as he said that is not really the point of the exercise, how far you push someone, it's for the benefit of the pushed not the pusher.

It does seem to produce some odd reactions in some students. It's a development tool, not "push hands" in the usual sense and seems to be unique to the Yang Sau Cheung lineage

I also found HWK to be a very friendly and approachable guy who knows his stuff when it comes to the Gin Soon Chu lineage. It's certainly different from the "standard" Yang style in the UK - more internal and power based I'd say than just forms forms forms. Though I've never seen how it crosses over into application

cheers
Rob
Last edited by RobP2 on Sun Feb 23, 2014 2:40 am, edited 1 time in total.
"If your life seems dull and boring - it is" - Derek & Clive
http://www.systemauk.com/
User avatar
RobP2
Great Old One
 
Posts: 3152
Joined: Fri Jan 23, 2009 4:05 am
Location: UK

Re: London this Friday

Postby cloudz on Mon May 23, 2011 7:00 am

Good stuff Rob!

Thanks for taking the time to go into this. With hindsight I should have included this prior, but getting down to the meat and potatoes of that - what is is the pushee developing from this more specifically. How is the pushee here learning about borowing force for example ?

If it's ok, I have some specific questions on a couple things to clarify in my own mind..

The front foot is loaded, back foot empty. The idea is to maintain the structure(with no movement) while pressure / force is applied. The force should be felt in the back foot.


I take it you're describing the pushee here. When you say felt in the back foot, do you mean that the pushee recieves the force into their back leg ?

Or continues to load the front as much as they can and just 'feel' it in the back leg.

As the pressure increases of course it gets much harder to maintain the structure and the internal force builds up. The structure is maintained as the force is removed, then the pressure in the body is released with a sharp push - hence the bouncy legs.


You lost me with the part I bolded. When you say the pressure is released with a sharp push, does that mean that there is firstly a letting go of the feeding of force which resulted in the build up of pressure and then a further push by the pusher or wher you simple describing that release of stored up force as a "sharp push".

Hope that makes sense, and thanks for taking the time to go into this. Also do you know how long he'll be around for - I'd love to have a little private with someone like that if possible.
The old man calmly said: “Among the mighty are those who are mightier. In martial arts, no one presumes to praise his own ability. But because you are young, you don't know the scale of the world, and are unaware of how ridiculous you are. Why be upset?”
cloudz
Great Old One
 
Posts: 2403
Joined: Fri Jun 06, 2008 3:00 am
Location: London UK

Re: London this Friday

Postby RobP2 on Mon May 23, 2011 7:51 am

No prob George

"take it you're describing the pushee here. When you say felt in the back foot, do you mean that the pushee recieves the force into their back leg ?
Or continues to load the front as much as they can and just 'feel' it in the back leg."


You feel it in the back leg rather than shift the weight there, the load is all over the front.

"When you say the pressure is released with a sharp push, does that mean that there is firstly a letting go of the feeding of force which resulted in the build up of pressure and then a further push by the pusher or wher you simple describing that release of stored up force as a "sharp push"."

Yes - the pressure is removed, but you have to keep the structure and intention. Then there is kind of a sharp push or hit that bounces you back. This was described, I think, as then borrowing the energy you have built up to push you back

"what is is the pushee developing from this more specifically. How is the pushee here learning about borowing force for example ?"

I think it is that you learn to absorb and neutralise the incoming pressure without movement (he emphasised the importance of "stillness") and then how to return / release that force. It all builds up strong "peng" structure

I'd done a lot of this before with John Ding, but the explanation was nowhere near as detailed, then it was more about maintaining structure. so it was good from that point of view, but Vincent and HWK emphasised the internal aspects a lot more. I'm sure there are some article on Vincent's site that explain better than I do :-)

He was only over for the weekend, but if all went well I think the plan is to bring him back again - I'll let you know when I hear anything. If you are into this type of work then HWK is worth meeting. Overall from this school I prefer Vincent Chu's approach, but that's my personal taste. The bigger question is whether you would find this type of training useful and/or how it crosses over into application or freestyle work. That was something I never had answered, one reason why this approach is no longer for me - though I respect Vincent highly as a teacher and an individual

cheers
Rob
Last edited by RobP2 on Sun Feb 23, 2014 2:44 am, edited 2 times in total.
"If your life seems dull and boring - it is" - Derek & Clive
http://www.systemauk.com/
User avatar
RobP2
Great Old One
 
Posts: 3152
Joined: Fri Jan 23, 2009 4:05 am
Location: UK

Re: London this Friday

Postby cloudz on Tue May 24, 2011 5:02 am

Thanks Rob, much appreciated.
The old man calmly said: “Among the mighty are those who are mightier. In martial arts, no one presumes to praise his own ability. But because you are young, you don't know the scale of the world, and are unaware of how ridiculous you are. Why be upset?”
cloudz
Great Old One
 
Posts: 2403
Joined: Fri Jun 06, 2008 3:00 am
Location: London UK

Re: London this Friday

Postby RobP2 on Sat Feb 22, 2014 7:30 am

Seeing as how this post and incident has now become a talking/selling point for that school I think I should point out that my reaction to the pushing, when put in the set position of the drill, was to be moved back as I said above. Nothing dramatic or being made to look "silly". In fact there is video of me pushing with HK's senior, Vincent Chu, about 10 years before and you can clearly see my reaction then - certainly not like the guy in the NY "Sparring" clip (is that sparring?). I also wonder if I would hop and bounce after striking HWK in the stomach like their other clip? http://www.nytaichi.com/punch.htm
He didn't give me that opportunity



This would seem to be in contrast to my claimed extremely dramatic reaction in London - which unfortunately was not videoed. But I think people can draw their own conclusions, unless of course HK is claiming to be somewhat more powerful than Vincent.

It's an unfortunate turn of events, at no time when present in person was I given the impression that I was undergoing some sort of test of power, I thought we were having a friendly meet where HK was showing me some of his work. Of course I'm always happy to repeat the experience, with video next time so we can see exactly what does go on. My contact details are all on my website

http://www.systemauk.com
Last edited by RobP2 on Mon Feb 24, 2014 6:42 am, edited 7 times in total.
"If your life seems dull and boring - it is" - Derek & Clive
http://www.systemauk.com/
User avatar
RobP2
Great Old One
 
Posts: 3152
Joined: Fri Jan 23, 2009 4:05 am
Location: UK

Re: London this Friday

Postby hodmeist on Fri Feb 28, 2014 2:45 am

Seems like you have been tucked up Rob. These people are clowns trying to justify their own existence. If I wanted to spend a weekend training practical fighting methods I would place you and your group higher up my agenda than these chi blasters and I train in Yang Taiji.....
You went there for a friendly catch up and they use your good name to promote how wonderfully powerful their Taiji is? Have I understood correctly?
Is it on their website that they make the claim? Some people stoop to anything in an attempt to look good but it makes them look like a bunch of ars*holes....
hodmeist
Anjing
 
Posts: 143
Joined: Fri Jun 17, 2011 6:27 am
Location: Milton Keynes - England

Re: London this Friday

Postby RobP2 on Wed Mar 05, 2014 9:44 am

hodmeist wrote:You went there for a friendly catch up and they use your good name to promote how wonderfully powerful their Taiji is? Have I understood correctly?
Is it on their website that they make the claim?


Seems to be the case. Yes, they have linked to this thread.
I saw this from the same line the other day - this guy is even better, he doens't evenb need contact for the hop (4.20)

"If your life seems dull and boring - it is" - Derek & Clive
http://www.systemauk.com/
User avatar
RobP2
Great Old One
 
Posts: 3152
Joined: Fri Jan 23, 2009 4:05 am
Location: UK


Return to Events, Seminars, Tournaments, Meet-ups

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest