Xing Yi Tiger Linking Sequence

[Ba-men]

Zhang Tong's forms are pretty much the same as the ones from Master Zhang Junfeng (in fact, all eight of the forms in Zhang Tong's book were taught by my teacher as well). I do not see much similarity between Mr. Andrews version and other versions that I have seen or know.

+1

[wushutiger]

However my teacher also taught a set called "Ba Zhong Hu Xing" 8 seeds of tiger. These were eight short linking sequences, most simply 1 movement repeated some with maybe 2 or 3 movements. It is from these movements that my teacher recently took out those with a Beng Jin aspect and made the last bit of the link in the video from 0.33 onwards. I do not remember all the 8 seeds of tiger but I hope my teacher might be able to help me remember them when I next see him. As far as I remember some are within the link anyway.

Ba Zhong Hu Xing

1. Chang/Zhang Hu Xing - Long/Elder Tiger Shape
2. Duan Hu Xing - Short/weak point Tiger Shape
3. Xie Hu Xing - Slanting/stray Tiger Shape
4. Hu Tuo - Tiger Supporting or Carrying/Tiger asking
5. Hu Xiao - Tiger Roar/Angry Tiger
6. Hu Pu - Tiger Springs/Rushes Forth
7. Zhuan Shen Hu - Turning Body Tiger/Transforming Structure Tiger
8. Rao Shen Hu - Winding body Tiger

Paul: Did you by chance use an online dictionary or a translator to write the english names of what you are referring to above? The use of "seed" and "elder" , "weak point", "asking" etc are more the terms you would find in direct translations out of context.

in my opinion they are 8 variations of "hupu" (standard tiger form).

Yes, I noticed this too. Our 6 tigers are six different tiger completely, that could be used in a variety of methods such as "rao bu/shen" ; "zhuan shen" ; Xie (obliquely) , longer or shorter, which are variations rather.

[Pandrews1982]

The names are from notes provided by my teacher. He didn't provide the Chinese characters for the names so I didn't use an online dictionary. These notes come from my teacher's training notes so likely from the 1980s or 90s, well before I began training with him.

He did say that the dual meaning of the names is deliberate as the sets can be performed with variations in body method to distinguish between the two meanings and this is also written in the notes I have.

I am not sure which of his teachers showed him this set. I also know that he exchanged and trained with many other Xing Yi practitioners (and other martial artists) in Beijing which he does not name as teachers while he was working there.

An excerpt from the notes I have says:

"Bazhong Hu Hsing - This is a relatively well known Hsing I linking sequence based on Tiger Hsing. Like all Hsing I Linking sequences it can be done with a weapon or unarmed. The basic pattern is of each of eight Tiger variations done first on the left and then on the right side. Between each set of variations there is a corresponding way to turn followed by a resumption of basic San Ti Shi/Pi Quan. Much of the interest of Bazhong Hu Hsing lies in this final resumption of San Ti out of differing turns, which involves a wide range of subtle and sometimes complex body dynamics.

Each of the names of the methods in Bazhong Hu Hsing was deliberately given a dual meaning based on differing ways that Chinese characters can be read, which can give some sense to its usage.

This link can be varied in a host of different ways, including obviously increasing the number of repeats of each method before turning"

I did miss the following from my list:

8. Rao Shen Hu - Winding body Tiger - can also mean Bypassing Structure Tiger

[edededed]

FYI, here is the list from Zhang Tong (well, in traditional characters, because I like them):

八種虎形 - Bazhonghuxing

長虎形 - changhuxing
短虎形 - duanhuxing
斜虎形 - xiehuxing
虎托 - hutuo
虎嘯 - huxiao
虎撲 - hupu
轉身虎 - zhuanshenhu
繞身虎 - raoshenhu

(This order is the same as from his book - so the names and order are exactly the same as the above.)

[Pandrews1982]

Ed,

Thanks for the characters

in my notes my teacher wrote:

The following is the "traditional" order of Bazong Hu Hsing...

And provided the list in the order I gave. I expect he wrote traditional with quote marks because he always believed that once you have learnt and understood the linking sequence you should mix things up, add other movements, mix up animals together, add in elements and so on in order to practice the ability to change and adapt. Therefore "traditional" was his way of saying, learn this first then you can change it.

[I-mon]

Nice one Paul. I liked the video - haven't listened to the speaking parts yet but watched the movements. There were only a few moments when I felt like the body mechanics were super-clear, like some others here maybe, I most like my xingyi demonstrations to be very clear and deliberate, but still there was a lot in your movement that I did like. Some great flow and intent.

I wonder, when you say that your teacher emphasizes the power generation from zhongwan or the chest centre, whether or not he still believes in linking it with the lower spine and belly and hips, once you have mastered the first or chest-centered part? I've kind of gone the other way around in my own training, developing a bit of foot-hip-belly/lumbar connection first and then only much later getting my head around the lumbo-thoracic, thoracic, and scapular connections required to actually transfer power out to the hands. I feel now like getting the chest connection first might actually be more effective for developing useable power as quickly as possible.

Anyway, thanks for sharing, your shit is fake, my teacher is better, good luck with your training.

[Pandrews1982]

I-Mon,

Clear and deliberate is how I teach the linking sequences, i.e. just body movement and technique. But for application/demonstration and usage I emphasise "Xing" the nature/character behind the animal. To me each animal should have a different feel/quality of expression as well as different movements/techniques. A lot of the Xing Yi videos I watch I like but sometimes I feel that they lack any character. I think some of this is because people want to display somethign which looks nice or is easy to see/understand rather than show the expression of the animal. Also a focus too much on 5 elements (which have the same kind of neutral expression) is often seen in peoples performance of animals which shouldn't IMO have a neutral expression. For example I feel Luo DeXue's solo rooster link in the video below to be lacking in expression of character, this may be deliberate to show the movements in an instructional way, however when you see the applications in the video you see the character in the application and it certainly has that chicken/rooster nature. When teaching, the student needs to see the movement clearly in order to copy, but in expression the character and strategy emerges. Personally I would like to see more linking sequences done with the Xing "on" even if they look less aesthetically pleasing or harder to understand, and I would be interested in seeing Luo Dexue perform his rooster link with the same expression solo as he was using in the applications.



I did meet Luo Dexue some years ago and had mixed views on his approach. To me there was too much emphasis on trips/takedowns and less on heavy striking, but I've since seen this as just a personal preference of mine and it was based on only a small clip of his entire art. The more I have seen of Luo's material the more he grows on me and I would probably like to attend one of his workshops again in the future to see more.

Anyway..

The zhongwan is like the focal point so the upper torso and lower torso are still involved throughout but the point at which we move around remains high. For me this aids in the mobility and helps the feet to feel light rather than say if I practice bajiquan where my mass is much lower and movement is more kua/hip/lower waist oriented.

Maybe the upper connection can give you the power quicker, I just don't know as I've really only focused on two arts in my life, firstly Wing Chun to a fairly high level, and then Xing Yi. I haven't done any wing chun for many many years now. Though I've cross-trained and dabbled in other things I haven't really focused on any other way of power generation to any great extent and my Xing Yi now colours any other art I may practice. The tai chi peeps from Graham's teacher's line (who I cross-train with occasionally) tend to take longer to pick up the power and combat applicability of their tai chi, focusing more on the technical aspects first then adding in power later, but I have to say once they catch up they are pretty good.

[Bao]

An excellent thread, very interesting for me who only have had to scrape the surface of the art. Thank you all for discussing and sharing.

No (yet at least), only and ...

[wushutiger]

He did say that the dual meaning of the names is deliberate as the sets can be performed with variations in body method to distinguish between the two meanings and this is also written in the notes I have.

Paul, I know you don't speak Chinese, but this can't be the case with most of these in this context unfortunately. Your teacher whose notes you referred to, does he speak Chinese to an adequate standard?