Yang Tai Chi Chuan — Choy Family System

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Yang Tai Chi Chuan — Choy Family System

Postby marvin8 on Sun Nov 26, 2017 5:36 am

Michael Gilman
Published on Apr 25, 2017

This rare video shows three generations of the Choy family as they demonstrate the Yang Style as taught to Choy Hak Pang by Yang Chen Fu. The first part is Hak Pang moving through the 108 Long Form. This is followed by the Sword Form, and finally the Saber Form. The next section is the 108 Long Form demonstrated by Master Choy Kam Man. Then, the 54 Short Form is demonstrated by Frank Choy. The last section is Master Choy working with students in San Francisco in the early 1970's. I hope you appreciate seeing how forms change as they get passed from generation to generation. The video is narrated by Frank Choy:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bD4oBBoZ1uA
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Re: Yang Tai Chi Chuan — Choy Family System

Postby charles on Sun Nov 26, 2017 10:49 am

Thanks for posting that. It is interesting to see the changes from one generation to the next. One can also see the effect of some differing influences, such as CMC on Frank Choy's performance. These differences lead to the observation below.

The narration states that Choy Hak Pang learned the art directly from Yang Chenpo (aka Chenfu). Very often, people state the name of their teachers, particularly if their teachers are famous. It can be important to others to know where one learned one's art, but the implication is often that what one is doing is the same as their teacher. What rarely gets acknowledged is that the student is not the teacher. Many students perform what they learned quite differently from their teachers. There are a variety of reasons for that.

Since there is no known video footage of Yang Chenfu, it is interesting to compare students of his. For example, there are very obvious differences between CHP and, say, Fu Zhongwen. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qBfrAlkDS0k There are clear differences between the two that go beyond personalization, body type, age, etc. Again, there can be a long list of reasons for that.

My point is simply a student is not their teacher. Having a teacher who has high-level skills is not a guarantee that students of that teacher also have high-level skills. Students often imply that they have high-level skills because they learned from someone who had high-level skills. It isn't uncommon for a teacher to do one thing and have students do something else, but have the students believing they are doing what the teacher is doing. The reasoning is often along the lines of, "Since I'm doing what my teacher is doing, and when my teacher does this he has good skills, I also have good skills".
Last edited by charles on Sun Nov 26, 2017 10:55 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Yang Tai Chi Chuan — Choy Family System

Postby wayne hansen on Sun Nov 26, 2017 12:50 pm

I have had this film for a number of years
Pretty close to teachers who I had who learned directly from YCF
Don't put power into the form let it naturally arise from the form
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Re: Yang Tai Chi Chuan — Choy Family System

Postby Rhen on Mon Nov 27, 2017 12:00 pm

Nice treasure for history and posterity. However, there are a lot of problems with the first guys form. I watched up to repulse monkey and had seen enough. I guess he learned the public form (108 or 103) and not the disciple material (85 form).
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Re: Yang Tai Chi Chuan — Choy Family System

Postby wayne hansen on Mon Nov 27, 2017 12:22 pm

Rhen wrote:Nice treasure for history and posterity. However, there are a lot of problems with the first guys form. I watched up to repulse monkey and had seen enough. I guess he learned the public form (108 or 103) and not the disciple material (85 form).


I see the same amount of problems in the 85 form
Can you point me to a film where it is done well
Don't put power into the form let it naturally arise from the form
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Re: Yang Tai Chi Chuan — Choy Family System

Postby Rhen on Thu Nov 30, 2017 2:00 pm

charles posted a film Wayne
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Re: Yang Tai Chi Chuan — Choy Family System

Postby wayne hansen on Thu Nov 30, 2017 5:49 pm

You are right Rhen
The only thing I see with these films of Fu is that I wish I had seen him at a younger stage
The fact is many of these people we see doing the form in a different manner to Choy may have done it exactly the same at the same time.
They may have changed it.
I have yet to see any, of these people with the supposed inside form produce any outstanding students
Don't put power into the form let it naturally arise from the form
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Re: Yang Tai Chi Chuan — Choy Family System

Postby Rhen on Fri Dec 01, 2017 12:35 pm

This Australian guy is apparently good, he posts most of the FZW stuff:

I hear PB Mizner is avoiding him.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ko9b6AY70wI
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Re: Yang Tai Chi Chuan — Choy Family System

Postby wayne hansen on Fri Dec 01, 2017 12:54 pm

Couldn't quite see what you thought was good
Don't put power into the form let it naturally arise from the form
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Re: Yang Tai Chi Chuan — Choy Family System

Postby Rhen on Wed Dec 06, 2017 12:24 pm

Beating a much larger opponent and not taking one push. Never losing a point and winning clearly.
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Re: Yang Tai Chi Chuan — Choy Family System

Postby HotSoup on Thu Dec 07, 2017 9:52 am

The guy apparently knows how to use gravity and proper body structure to "re-route" the opponent's force to not be pushed away. Guess, it counts as a skill. Is it enough to be called "good taijiquan"? That remains an open question.
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Re: Yang Tai Chi Chuan — Choy Family System

Postby Rhen on Fri Dec 08, 2017 8:01 am

HotSoup wrote:The guy apparently knows how to use gravity and proper body structure to "re-route" the opponent's force to not be pushed away. Guess, it counts as a skill. Is it enough to be called "good taijiquan"? That remains an open question.


Scanning through his youtube, the guy apparently seems very legit, has right instructors from Yang Taiji, correct shen fa, right methods and execution.
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Re: Yang Tai Chi Chuan — Choy Family System

Postby willie on Fri Dec 08, 2017 8:43 am

wayne hansen wrote:Couldn't quite see what you thought was good
me neither, garbage
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Re: Yang Tai Chi Chuan — Choy Family System

Postby Rhen on Fri Dec 08, 2017 12:18 pm

Please share with us Willie and Wayne your push hands working under REAL pressure. Thank you.
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Re: Yang Tai Chi Chuan — Choy Family System

Postby willie on Fri Dec 08, 2017 1:07 pm

Rhen wrote:Please share with us Willie and Wayne your push hands working under REAL pressure. Thank you.
Lol!
Last edited by willie on Fri Dec 08, 2017 3:49 pm, edited 7 times in total.
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