the rum soaked fist: internal martial arts forum

The link a clip of sparring filmed in Taiwan.





Why is Chinese kungfu declining What happened in 1880！

The video made by a friend of mine, talks about the history of martial arts, and what he feels happened to the Chinese martial arts..

Do you agree?

Chinese martial arts include a wide variety of styles and methods using different body methods to implement their respective principles, techniques and strategies according to their own standards. As such, there will never be, and really can't be, a one-size-fits-all standard which applies to all styles and methods. Additionally, even within the various lineages of the same style, individual masters and teachers adhere to different teaching and training standards, usually reflecting how they themselves were taught and trained.

"Traditional arts" were always for the few because the multitude always preferred easy! short term benefit" status! as opposed to spending time
savouring the pain, the patience, the long term effects of proper insight and the conditioning that went along with it. Additionally, the modern era made
much of traditional arts "less important" with the advent of what are called modern weapons of war and self defense so what is easy is always
preferred, based on perceptions of personal self defense and ability to show 'power' or control.

Traditional arts are not totally lost but the more "studious" and conscientous are harder to find along with the current ability to pay making skill even more
fleeting

Is it traditional arts that are hard to find or traditional students

They've entrophied into irrelevance.

I may be wrong, but that clip looked awfully like a section of the video of a number of students of quite well known masters demonstrating in Taiwan. It looks like part of a two person choreographed chin-na form.

I think that students of teachers who fought/knew how to fight had a much better chance of passing on their art as a fighting art, but many teachers did not pass all they knew on to the next generation for a variety of reasons. Sometimes it’s age, sometimes ability, bad luck – who knows? Sometimes, with the best will in the world, their students could not grasp what they were being taught. Aspects of the arts are certainly being lost, but they are broadening, too.
Modern technology is a brilliant resource for tracking down people with the skills that you want to develop or for filling out parts of the art that you were not taught. My early beginnings were basic longfist, but it is only recently that I have seen workable applications of some of the moves.

Of course, there are skills that are not ‘available’ to view online and those would require a healthy dose of luck to find.

Graculus
https://Ichijoji.blogspot.com

wayne hansen wrote:Is it traditional arts that are hard to find or traditional students

Good question! Finding authentic traditional kungfu of any style, taught by a legitimate master instructor, has always been challenging by comparison to opportunities to learn other Asian martial arts, but finding serious students who are willing to replicate the master's efforts in order to achieve the same skills are as rare as hen's teeth!

If someone considers himself a traditional martial artist, and wants the art to survive, then teach. They've only survived this long because of that, no matter what people think should be the standard. Only one person is needed for "the art" to survive. The question is what survives that isn't needed.

Doc Stier wrote:

wayne hansen wrote:Is it traditional arts that are hard to find or traditional students

Good question! Finding authentic traditional kungfu of any style, taught by a legitimate master instructor, has always been challenging by comparison to opportunities to learn other Asian martial arts, but finding serious students who are willing to replicate the master's efforts in order to achieve the same skills are as rare as hen's teeth!

Doesn't matter what you're selling, what are they buying?

As a Chinese friend once said to me

The hero has nowhere to do his valiant deeds.

Old Chinese saying

Do you agree?

Not really. People who want to preserve the arts don’t turn them into sport.

Bao wrote:

Do you agree?

Not really. People who want to preserve the arts don’t turn them into sport.

Historically it was the competitions that often validated the art, the master of an art
or how different masters introduced their arts..

Something that the video touched on.

Another great master who also taught at Shen Ji Ying was Liu Shijun (劉士俊).

That was where he had the famous encounter with Yang Banhou: one day Yang Ban Hou came home, he was happy because he threw Xiong Xian Li (Li’s nickname, he came from Xiong County). When Bauhou related the account to his father, Yang Luchan remarked, “don’t be too happy, it doesn’t look like a clean victory.”

Banhou was puzzled. Yang Luchan said “Look under your armpits.” Sure enough, there were holes under the armpits on Banhou’s robe. Liu Shijun, well-known master of eagle claw gongfu, could have caused him serious injury but obvious chose not to. Later that evening, Yang Luchan felt uneasy thinking about this, and quickly made his way to Liu Shijun’s place.

Liu was already packing his belongings to leave the city, as per tradition. Yang persuaded him to stay, saying this encounter was but a casual crossing of hands, all the while praising Liu’s skill and character. After much persuasion, Liu finally agreed to stay and came to admire Yang. One of Liu’s most prominent disciples was Liu Dekuan (劉德寬), who went on to achieve even greater famous after studying with Dong Haichuan.

There were famous contest set up in the old days...

People came to see how the masters or students used the methods they were noted for, or represented

windwalker wrote:

Bao wrote:

Do you agree?

Not really. People who want to preserve the arts don’t turn them into sport.

Historically it was the competitions that often validated the art, the master of an art
or how different masters introduced their arts..

Something that the video touched on.

Another great master who also taught at Shen Ji Ying was Liu Shijun (劉士俊).

That was where he had the famous encounter with Yang Banhou: one day Yang Ban Hou came home, he was happy because he threw Xiong Xian Li (Li’s nickname, he came from Xiong County). When Bauhou related the account to his father, Yang Luchan remarked, “don’t be too happy, it doesn’t look like a clean victory.”

Banhou was puzzled. Yang Luchan said “Look under your armpits.” Sure enough, there were holes under the armpits on Banhou’s robe. Liu Shijun, well-known master of eagle claw gongfu, could have caused him serious injury but obvious chose not to. Later that evening, Yang Luchan felt uneasy thinking about this, and quickly made his way to Liu Shijun’s place.

Liu was already packing his belongings to leave the city, as per tradition. Yang persuaded him to stay, saying this encounter was but a casual crossing of hands, all the while praising Liu’s skill and character. After much persuasion, Liu finally agreed to stay and came to admire Yang. One of Liu’s most prominent disciples was Liu Dekuan (劉德寬), who went on to achieve even greater famous after studying with Dong Haichuan.

There were famous contest set up in the old days...

People came to see how the masters or students used the methods they were noted for, or represented

Okay but those "contests" weren't ongoing moneymaking concerns for unscrupulous promoters who care nothing for the long term health and safety of the performers and just want to churn out an endless parade of soup can crushing spectacles.

There needs to be testing but professionally organized MMA or the wannabe LARPers that emulate it is not the proper crucible for maintaining integrity.

wayne hansen wrote:Is it traditional arts that are hard to find or traditional students

do not worry, what has eventually have been at risk loosing is being saved, with the internet and social media everything is easy to find

I wrote "People who want to preserve the arts don’t turn them into sport."

"Testing" through competition is something else. All martial artists should have some kind of pressure testing as sparring and practicing defense from committed attacks. Trying to shape traditional arts to fit modern competition rules, and also practicing martial arts for competing only, is what I object to.