the rum soaked fist: internal martial arts forum

Wayne, the video is what it is.

To indulge every nameless, faceless request is an endless task. I barely have enough time for videos as it is, and very little for forums.

Introduce yourself, video what you do, make it an exchange - not simply a demand by an unknown person.

Would you walk into someone's dojo and instantly demand to see them demonstrate all kinds of applications?

retreats108 wrote:crazy Friday-night hooligan.....using his Ksatriya Silat art, which as I mentioned, has kept him alive in countless real fights against sharp things, heavy blunt things, projectile things and other stuff that I won't put here due to legal reasons.

Britain sounds not as a safe place to travel to

MistyMonkey, I am not affiliated to Simon or Alex but know and respect them both. I guess I have the advantage of having felt their skill. My world is now mainly mma and similar, I have trained with current UFC guys, and personally I still would rate Simon (and alex) among the top tier I have met and felt.

This is the only reason I posted on the thread so will leave it to Alex from here out as it is his video etc.

Misty was right on spot. Agree with everything. Personally, that video did very little for me. Nothing in it that suggests that he is a street fighter or know anything about how to apply what he shows in combat. What I see is a very common type of MA demo, how to apply techniques against single attacks and what I hear is common MA jargongs like breaking every arm that comes out. But just because I see nothing myself, it doesn’t mean that it’s nothing more there. It doesn’t need to exclude something else. This vid was just a style dependent demonstration, like: “This is how this style would [hopefully] work in a situation”. And there’s nothing wrong with that. However, I look very much forward to the interview.

retreats108 wrote:Wayne, the video is what it is.
...
Introduce yourself, video what you do, make it an exchange - not simply a demand by an unknown person....

Was this a request to Wayne? He has put up a lot of videos and is certainly not an anonymous person who only sits behind a screen and talks. Just make a search....

Tiga Pukul wrote:Some decent Silat in the movie there. I recognize typical Cimande drills and tactics. However i miss a bit (perhaps done deliberately) the most essential part of good Silat, which is Langkah (i.e. Footwork). Although the hard hitting on arm (limb descruction) is typical of Cimande, in the end footwork is more important. A bit like the boxer. We have several people of comparative skill in Holland so it looks quite familiar :). Not quite sure why he would call it also 'pukulan', but that discussion is a bit of a hornets' nest in Silat.

I thought that 'pukulan' (loosely) meant 'hitting'-- going by that interpretation, isn't the video exactly what it says it is? I.E. a demonstration of some of the hitting concepts without worrying about footwork, etc?

Really waiting for the interview. Alex is doing great work once more!

Bhassler wrote:

Tiga Pukul wrote:Some decent Silat in the movie there. I recognize typical Cimande drills and tactics. However i miss a bit (perhaps done deliberately) the most essential part of good Silat, which is Langkah (i.e. Footwork). Although the hard hitting on arm (limb descruction) is typical of Cimande, in the end footwork is more important. A bit like the boxer. We have several people of comparative skill in Holland so it looks quite familiar . Not quite sure why he would call it also 'pukulan', but that discussion is a bit of a hornets' nest in Silat.

I thought that 'pukulan' (loosely) meant 'hitting'-- going by that interpretation, isn't the video exactly what it says it is? I.E. a demonstration of some of the hitting concepts without worrying about footwork, etc?

Well that is a discussion by itself BHassler, i won't go into that deeply. There are plenty of people who use the term in that way. However some people also think that Pukulan (although meaning 'to hit') also can be referred to as a separate branch of Silat which uses different tactics. For instance whilst Silat often gives attackers the chance to attack (some say you give your opponent 3 chances, hence why you see plenty of blocking or deflecting), in Pukulan you give your opponent no chance and immediately go for the 'kill'. Several variations of this name are also known in Indonesia like 'maen pukul' or 'peupeuhan'.

But that is a bit off-topic.

Awesome, thanks. Sounds like that would be a good conversation to have over a beer.

Tiga Pukul - do you know of Silat Sendeng? It is a direct attack art, and one of Simon's core systems, I have a little video of him doing a couple of strikes and will try and weave it into the interview.

Trick - that was certain towns in the 1970s to 1990s, like Hatfield where Simon was raised, this was the base for a notorious gang of skinhead's (many of them killers), when I used to walk through town with him decades ago it was.....eventful. Due to a lot of bad stuff that went down, we didn't go into detail in the interview, but I started this thread with some background to show that he is not a 'theoretical martial artist'....he has had to use his art in ways which I wouldn't really wish on anyone.

Bao - no, it wasn't directed at Wayne or anyone on particular (I have seen Wayne's films and he is a practical martial artist), it is just my view on internet etiquette, maybe its too much to hope for !

but that discussion is a bit of a hornets' nest in Silat.

FIXED:

discussion is a bit of a hornets' nest in Silat.

S

retreats108 wrote:Would you walk into someone's dojo and instantly demand to see them demonstrate all kinds of applications?

retreats108 wrote:it is just my view on internet etiquette, maybe its too much to hope for !

Wouldn't not walk in to a dojo if I didn't think they had the goods, don't have the luxury of wasting time nor indulging in unproven tactics, hence the questions, asked politely.

And in return, passive aggression, hiding behind mystery and secrecy? Perhaps this sells to a particular type of audience, but I can tell you for a fact, this does not sell to people with any level of discernment. Can you get that?

In fact, anyone trying to make you give up your critical eye with these sorts of excuses, is not a person to be trusted, particularly for "professional application", too high a risk. High success rate, proven tactics is what goes in the field.

Good luck with your marketing approach!

Yes I understand what you are saying, and it is your choice to like or not like what you see.

But you know the internet - one person asks for demo vs a moving boxer, the next vs live blade, the next Friday night hidden cam in a rough bar ....and so on. What is really provable except what each person has been through and proved (a real question to you) ?

Several people on this board know Simon well, I started the thread with background info to give context to what is - and I agree with you - simply a static demo of skills.

You can either accept what I say at face value, or doubt it. I am telling you Simon has used his skills for real.

The invite still stands - if you ever visit the UK you are welcome to meet for friendly discussion and training.

I've heard of Silat Sendeng yes, although i'm not really familiar with Malaysian silat and often it has a slightly different background than Indonesian silat. I've heard of several pukulan'like styles like Seni Gayong and Gayang Lima.
Simon has learned several systems, which, at least superficially have different strategies like Cimande and Silat Sendeng, but i'm not knowledgable enough to judge. In my line we believe in learning only one system for a lifetime and getting all of the knowledge and solution from that one system, because a system is built on interconnecting parts that cannot be exchanged by parts of other systems easily.

Thats' why as a general comment, I'm sometimes surprised when i read that people can be expert in Yang TaiJi AND Bagua AND Silat AND Wing Chun. If you learn to generate power in a certain structure in one way, why do you want to learn different other ways as well? The knowledge of deep systems often take more than a lifetime to master.

And yes true, ShawnSegler, discussion is a hornets' nest in Silat
Although I must say that also in TaiJi and Xing Yi there is plenty of disagreement on what is original, has correct knowledge of bio-mechanics, etc.etc.

I think that would be ideal Tiga Pukul, to immerse in one system - if one is fortunate enough to find a teacher with a complete art.

At least to fully embody the basics of one system, would be a good start - not just jumping from basics to basics in different things but never embodying anything.

Is your art a form of Serak?

Hi Alex,
I think I understand your reasoning in creating this line of videos, but would you ever be interested in showing a range of traditional masters engaging in free sparring? The reason that I ask is that the image of traditional martial arts is (rightfully so in many cases) rather lamentable next to perhaps more sportive disciplines, and if ever there was a means of improving the image of traditional arts it would be through videos of people using them in a free form format (rather like Chris/Middleway seems to do in certain videos). I believe many 'internal techniques' are applicable to real time circumstances (I play with them myself in sparring-I'm definitely no master), and perhaps could be synthesised to delete cultural accessories and accelerate learning time, but only if they are continually played with in a free format...I'd be interested in your ideas on this?