Taiji and Xingyi Heavy Long pole shaking basics for power

[Mr_Wood]

Well they say size isn't everything but when it comes to staff training I think it is

[wushutiger]

Hi Nicklas,

Just a small observation on your lan/na, from my experience, you should keep the shaft extremely tight on your abdomen throughout the entire process of lan and na. so tight in fact that you shouldn't be able to even force your pinky inbetween body and spear. There are quite a few reasons for this, but with regards to developing power, this forces you to move the spear with body work (core movement) as opposed to arms. You can feel the practicality of this if you stand with the spear against a tree (ie on the outside of the spear) and do lan, or the opposite and do na. Try it with the spear shaft not tight on your body and then try it with the spear tight on your body, you should be able to determine which is stronger and more stable.

Also, people seem to focus on the lan action, but place less emphasis on na, whereas they should both have the same emphasis in terms of body work, and core movement and strength.

The main purpose of doing long pole shaking is to use your core to shake/move the pole, not your arms....

[Bodywork]

+1
And the obvious flip side of that argument..... is that if you truly were moving the pole/ spear from the dantien, then you could and should be able to demonstrate the tip shaking considerably...without your arms or shoulders moving....AT ALL...since the real action is the dantien movement radiating power and change out through the legs and arms. But interestingly, when asked to do so, for some...movement ends... then and there.

[taiwandeutscher]

You definitly need a bigger pole!

[C.J.W.]

Long pole training is not only found in northern systems like Taiji/Xingyi.

Here's one practiced in various WC systems for comparison:

six-and-half stff

[taiwandeutscher]

Is that a rattan stuff?

[nicklas]

Hi Nicklas,

Just a small observation on your lan/na, from my experience, you should keep the shaft extremely tight on your abdomen throughout the entire process of lan and na. so tight in fact that you shouldn't be able to even force your pinky inbetween body and spear.

Thanks for the input. I agree but dont see it as black and white as that it _always_ should be there. Basic la-na, yes, then there is some variations and so on. But I do it sloppy some times =) thanks for the reminder.

You definitly need a bigger pole!

yes i know! They are hard to get here in Sweden so i made my own out of spruce (there is a lot of spruce here...) but it is to light and not flexible at all, hence useless.
The staff i use now is actually quit heavy... enough to make me tired. But if you know where i can get a real DaGan/Qiang i would be really happy!

[C.J.W.]

Is that a rattan stuff?

Usually in southern CMA the long pole is made of flexible wood and can be quite heavy. The one he's using in the video is considerably smaller and shorter than others I've seen.

[Teazer]

...and sometimes not so flexible as far as wood goes. Mine's ironwood & 8 1/2 feet long. I've got some shorter lengths in ironwood, purpleheart and hickory, plus a big length of galvanized plumbers pipe.

[Teazer]

So all these pole shaking exercises you guys do - are you trying to improve your general power generation and the pole happens to be a convenient tool, or are you trying to train power within the confines of training the pole as a weapon?

[Bob]

In many of the da qiang training in the baji system I train finds a direct correlation between the da qiang excercise and the single posture of the baji form. So the da qiang not only trains for power, heng/haa breathing potential use but also for the shen fa.

I am not sure how this holds for other systems.

[nicklas]

So all these pole shaking exercises you guys do - are you trying to improve your general power generation and the pole happens to be a convenient tool, or are you trying to train power within the confines of training the pole as a weapon?

Trying to improve my general power generation and the pole happens to be a convenient tool, it also looks cool =) Actually i do it mostly when i teach and when my students are warming up, stretching or when ever i have 10 minutes over in class.

I learned from WangYanJi when he helped me to prepare for a pushing hands competition and i really enjoyed the workout.

Weapon training... I love the weapons and think there is a important cultural root in them but i train them for my own amusement, and dont really care about the combat effectiveness.

[Bodywork]

So all these pole shaking exercises you guys do - are you trying to improve your general power generation and the pole happens to be a convenient tool, or are you trying to train power within the confines of training the pole as a weapon?

I don't care about the pole as a weapon as I would never use that flexible type of wood with the Japanese weapons I train for (they are stiff and made of oak) but the conditioning for power generation and connection translates perfectly into a venue where stiffer staffs are used. Moreover, while the large, overt shaking is completely unnecessary to deflect another spear or sword and remain...on line, the power you get is extremely relevant in any venue.
Sometimes I find it curious that MA'ers get it when you talk cardio or weight training with apparently no issues at all translating that into movement. Talk about internal "conditioning" and their minds go on tilt and they become obtuse-even in the face of the fact that when men used these weapons, they did this and other kinds of training that is markedly different from what modern sport trainers would ever consider valid.

[wushutiger]

So all these pole shaking exercises you guys do - are you trying to improve your general power generation and the pole happens to be a convenient tool, or are you trying to train power within the confines of training the pole as a weapon?

Well, actually both. The longer pole forces you to generate power to extreme distances, in an effective manner, and to use your body to do so (developing bodywork). Being able to exert power to that distance, of course will develop more power when exerting to short distance (ie to the extremes of your arms). This will ALSO assist you to develop better power when using long weapons too.

For me, as I do Xingyi, the long spear has special value, as the XY system comes from spear, so there is indeed a direct link between movements of spear and the 5 elements power generation. Ignoring this bodywork link will limit your power in XY, and create what I have seen alot of in XY, stiff, rigid "karate" like XY..... After I started with the long spear shaking I felt TREMENDOUS increase in my 5 element hand work power. Suddenly, my core was working in harmony with my arms and legs. So you can definaltely say both, as the long pole indeed is a tool for this, but if you apply the same principles and focus on this core work when doing spear specific movements, of course it will improve that area too. Win-Win!

I love the weapons and think there is a important cultural root in them but i train them for my own amusement, and dont really care about the combat effectiveness.

Each to his own, but let me say, if you dont focus on effectiveness, sometimes the movement can change.....

I don't care about the pole as a weapon as I would never use that flexible type of wood with the Japanese weapons I train for (they are stiff and made of oak) but the conditioning for power generation and connection translates perfectly into a venue where stiffer staffs are used. Moreover, while the large, overt shaking is completely unnecessary to deflect another spear or sword and remain...on line, the power you get is extremely relevant in any venue.

The flexible woods used are intended only for training power, to get a feel crrectly and be able to gauge it. Combat was done with harder stiffer wood. So your thoughts are correct into the translation between flexible to stiff...

[neijia_boxer]

So all these pole shaking exercises you guys do - are you trying to improve your general power generation and the pole happens to be a convenient tool, or are you trying to train power within the confines of training the pole as a weapon?

In all internal weapon training, the idea is to extend your qi into the weapon. The weapon will help you know if your achieving this or not. The classic masters have mentioned, using the long pole is to help in training power generation.