Some great taiji stuff.

[XiaoXiong]

Thanks bro.

[windwalker]

http://video.sina.com.cn/v/b/85492059-1925393577.html
this teacher " Yan Fang Chi"" and "Bian Zhiquin" are not the same person.

Ms. Bian Zhiqin is the 20th generation disciple of Chen-style Taiji and the 6th generation disciples of Wu-style Taiji.
This video records a person testing the push-hand with Ms. Bian
Ms. Bian Zhiqin: http://blog.sina.com.cn/bzqtaiji If anybody want to reprint the video, please also reprint above information together. Thank you.

her bio,,,,is pretty impressive and her skill quite good.

[LaoDan]

Instead of an all or nothing discussion of LKJ, could we also possibly discuss what may be a middle ground of practice (if anyone has experience with this)? I thought that it was not uncommon for some schools to train pointing their finger after issuing. That is, once you have physically issued and sent someone outside of contact range, do the continued thought and looking and pointing in the direction that you wish the opponent to go just indicate a follow-through, a continuation of the thought once the physical movement has finished, or is it some moderate practice of LKJ? Does it add to the effectiveness of the issuing, and if so, then how?

[D_Glenn]

This is not constructive word choices. No need to call people names. I don't think David is deluded. I think you are being judgmental and rude, and putting words in his mouth. I appreciate you being a part of the discussion, but this is not what I want here. I think if you can't control yourself you should not be a part of it.
Jess

Consider it done.

But you should be aware that there's a good 30 pages of posts about this very topic where Windwalker basically says to anyone who debates with him that they're not at a high enough level, etc. to understand what they're looking at.


.

[XiaoXiong]

Here's a taiji teacher almost always regarded as totally legit and highly skilled doing his thing.

What is the difference? I think she's got it for real. If you don't, what makes you think so?
Jess

[XiaoXiong]

This is not constructive word choices. No need to call people names. I don't think David is deluded. I think you are being judgmental and rude, and putting words in his mouth. I appreciate you being a part of the discussion, but this is not what I want here. I think if you can't control yourself you should not be a part of it.
Jess

Consider it done.

But you should be aware that there's a good 30 pages of posts about this very topic where Windwalker basically says to anyone who debates with him that they're not at a high enough level, etc. to understand what they're looking at.


.

What if he's right? It's worth considering setting aside your butthurt and listening IMO. Have it your way though.
Jess

[XiaoXiong]

I see that this thread is starting to bring in energy from the past too much. Let's get in the moment here. David is so far the one who has a rational explanation for my experiences. I agree with him that it takes a major paradigm shift to be able to understand these skills. I am hoping to explore that paradigm through this thread, and he is helping. I liked a lot of the stuff Cloudz put up, and others too. But as far as discussion goes, a lot of you seem to be essentially saying that you don't believe in the utility of taiji skills for physical combat, and that only the visible skills are of value.

Let's examine this apparent point of view. It suggests that the hidden and transforming power of ima is nonsense. It also suggests that external practitioners will generally be better fighters. This was not historically the case, and isn't the case in my experience. If taiji made it all the way to the high courts of China then why are we so skeptical? If you have read the classics then why don't we seem to be able to recognize them in action? What is the gap in concept here between the ones who think that there is a way to use emptiness in taiji or not? All the best teachers ime talk about using emptiness in taiji. If you can say that you don't believe in the martial utility of emptiness per taiji classics, then what are you doing here? If you believe in the principal of emptiness and it's martial utility, but don't like the videos I posted then why don't the videos referred to represent that principal in your paradigm?
Jess

[XiaoXiong]

How about this clip? This is my favorite, the guy flying across the court is Jeff who is the guy who has shown me lots of stuff. I don't want to drag him into anything, but from my pov, he is the most skilled and able taiji practitioner I've felt. He is also in many of the other videos I posted especially the Xie Bingcan ones. You can see the Jin here clearly right? And see the transfer of energy, and the effortlessness. Jeff would not let anyone toss him so they can look good from what I can tell. I can't budge him. No one else at the park either afaik. So consider this video, and tell me what you see if you will.
Jess

[BruceP]

Notable that some people can't tell the two women apart. And not just by name but by what's being 'demonstrated'.

Bian has been 'scrutinized' on these forums in the past with a separation in viewpoints drawing along the lines of what some have direct experience with regards the kind of work being shown in her vids, and what others have not.

Being empty doesn't mean being gullible, or even deluded. Neutrality goes much deeper than just psyche and attitude. Things one normally wouldn't notice becoming discernible, and all that. The energetics of mind/intent and its many interactive forms are readily observable everywhere and all the time.

[BruceP]

Can't see the vid, Jess

[XiaoXiong]

Fixed

[Patrick]

How can anyone be constructive if disagreeing means beeing unconstructive?

[XiaoXiong]

You can be constructive by making your disagreement a respectful continuum of the discussion that allows for and invites intelligent and helpful explanation. If you disagree, then ask critical questions, point out and explain the reasons you disagree. If you come with the attitude that you are right and we're wrong then the discussion is very limited. My opinion is that some people have an mma style mentality almost of what works and doesn't etc, without having a deep investigation or experience with taiji masters who make very light force work. The Li Jingwu clip posted on the Bian thread and comments made there was a good response I thought, and I appreciated it very much, as it stimulated the discussion.
Jess

[XiaoXiong]

Instead of an all or nothing discussion of LKJ, could we also possibly discuss what may be a middle ground of practice (if anyone has experience with this)? I thought that it was not uncommon for some schools to train pointing their finger after issuing. That is, once you have physically issued and sent someone outside of contact range, do the continued thought and looking and pointing in the direction that you wish the opponent to go just indicate a follow-through, a continuation of the thought once the physical movement has finished, or is it some moderate practice of LKJ? Does it add to the effectiveness of the issuing, and if so, then how?

I think it is the same kind if mental training that beginning end ending a form is. The silk thread of the intent shouldn't snap off. The connection can be made, felt and trained at a distance. We learned this early in bagua circle walking training.
Jess

[XiaoXiong]

Hey Patrick, just think about not directly opposing taiji guys verbally or physically ;-)
J