5 Phase Xinyi Dao Beng training

[beegs]

Student private lesson today
Regans Martial Arts crosstraining approach
Xinyi Dao, and MMA, is combined here
Regans Martial Arts teaches Li Tailiangs Xy Dao along side other methods , here we are working on Beng Quan combined with a stand up combination from MMA, used vs a push as well as training against a jab

[Wanderingdragon]

Why not beng straight from the start, just like your opening demo?

[beegs]

Why not beng straight from the start, just like your opening demo?

we are crosstraining, we worked several variatons of the combo, just posted one

[Andy_S]

Beegs:

What is your take on the use of the body punch?

My experience (and it tends to be born out by combat sports - boxing, MMA, etc) is that the body punch is far less effective than the face punch. I'd add that in da streetz, there is a good chance that your opponent is going to be larger (and/or fatter) than you, further obviating the efficacy of this shot.

Also, if you are teaching the guys boxing as their base punching system (sensible choice, I'd say) why introduce Xinyi - which employs (1) a different stance, (2) a different guard and (3) a different engine/power generation methodology?

[GrahamB]

I like your beng.

I think Andy's "why?" question is valid though.... what you've produced looks a bit like this to me:



rather than one integrated 'thing'

[cdobe]

Hello...? The chimera can fly, kick backwards, use its horns in two and bite in three directions simultaneously...

[GrahamB]

Yes, but it probably gets confused a lot, what with having three heads, all pulling its body in different directions....

[beegs]

Beegs:

What is your take on the use of the body punch?

My experience (and it tends to be born out by combat sports - boxing, MMA, etc) is that the body punch is far less effective than the face punch. I'd add that in da streetz, there is a good chance that your opponent is going to be larger (and/or fatter) than you, further obviating the efficacy of this shot.

Also, if you are teaching the guys boxing as their base punching system (sensible choice, I'd say) why introduce Xinyi - which employs (1) a different stance, (2) a different guard and (3) a different engine/power generation methodology?

the body punch doest work as well in mma as your fighting exteremely conditioned athletes who also have incredible varied skills etc, and it still does work. In the self defense aspect it works extremely well even when opponent is much bigger, remeber even in boxing against well conditioned guys body punches take their toll and against some punk in street whos startin trouble i have seen a body punch begin and end a fight quickly. heres one for ya in boxing



as for why introduce this or that etc, we are not bound by one method, and all my family in shanxi all mix bagua xinyi, shuai jiao etc sanda , my teacher of internal arts was a sanda Professor, we had to spar with sanda all the time we are about skill sets as opposed to dogma,(thats why i liked training their I had same theory) in my opinion too many people theorize about how to defeat this or that, we would rather train all areas and find a realistic path to self preservation.We are working on ima body methods which take time and in meantime we need functional skill sets we can apply immediately


Professor Li Tailiang

[beegs]

I like your beng.

I think Andy's "why?" question is valid though.... what you've produced looks a bit like this to me:

thx graham,
its not unusual for people to have different opinions on training and how to train people, its all good.
Che Xingyi in itself is dai method with Li Luonengs method as well as Chuo Jiao etc, so its been a mix and expansion since it began

[kreese]

Do you have all your students learn to hold pads? I'm thinking that is good experience. Good drills train the "dummy" as well as the active partner.

[beegs]

kreese- yes everyone has to learn to hold pads, its an art by itself especially when getting into crazy combos later. We do all arts on pads, so its needed for sure. Its not easy to learn distance and moving the pads right so takes some time

[GrahamB]

I like your beng.

I think Andy's "why?" question is valid though.... what you've produced looks a bit like this to me:

thx graham,
its not unusual for people to have different opinions on training and how to train people, its all good.
Che Xingyi in itself is dai method with Li Luonengs method as well as Chuo Jiao etc, so its been a mix and expansion since it began

Good point. I do a mix of arts myself. I think it's a bit like breeding - unless you mix the bloodlines you get inbreeding and mutations and other genetic problems begin to occur.

[Andy_S]

RE: Mix n Match
I'd say mixing Xinyi and Bagua (and Taiji too, if you have it) is fine, as they all work off the same shenfa platform. Boxing is a different beast altogether. As for SC: Well certainly, I think all CMA trained it to some degree, it was the fallback grappling art.

But I hear ye on IMA taking time to learn.

RE: Body Punch
Certainly a body punch can do the trick, but most times, it won't, it is less effective than a facer.

I'd add that this is not aimed at Beegs, it is a general question for all the HsingI peeps, who (from what little HsingI I have seen or done) tend to bang their beng on the bod.

Compare this to say WC, which (again, from what little I have done) targets its face punches well upstairs.

[Pandrews1982]

Andy - RE: beng to the bod

(IMO) Primary reason beng is usually practiced to the body is due to the previous use of weapons as the primary tools of the art. A needle (Ci), knife, sword thrust or spear to the torso done in such a way as to punch deep into the chest/abdomen area is likely to be a show stopper. The torso represents a large target area and a sharp weapon into any part of it is very danagerous; in comparison the head is a smaller and more movable target with a strong round skull to protect the brain, a good solid shot to the throat or center of the face may put the guy down but there is more chance that a weapon attack to the head may miss or cause only superficial damage (i.e. the guy might be messed up but he's still able to fight).

So IMO beng would have ideally been a thrust with a pointed and/or edged weapon.

Barehanded the body shot can still be effective but there are mitigating factors as to how effective, such as condition, build and training/skill of the opponent. But like anything, if you train until you have gained a high level of proficency in beng it can work against conditioned opponents.

Also consider that beng is usually seen done in "forms" where the text book, completely horizontal at the height of the solar plexus shot is usually seen. Beng can and often is aimed at the head, throat or even the groin. One strike I've been shown is to strike at the lower abdomen using beng in a diagonally downward manner aiming to try to hit the cocyx/back fo the hip - thus squashing the bladder and all the other squishy things in that area - it really hurts.

One other consideration is the strategy of moving the opponent and breaking their root. In wing chun for instance the strike is aimed at the head but its generally a surface/shallow strike, if the opponent is hard as nails and can "take it" then they are in a position to strike right back (they are within range of hitting you and probably still balanced). One aspect of xing yi strategy is to take the position of the opponent, you strike and step similtaneously so that the opponent has to move or is knocked back, this momentarily break's their connection to the ground and their ability to strike back effectively with any power. The beng (or other strike) may not be effective in stopping the guy but so long as it makes them move or knocks them back it allows for you to continue to press the advantage.

Still a lot of this depends on the abiltiy of the practitioner, and i woud agree that in general a beginner or even average student is unlikely to be effective with a beng to the body on a conditioned opponent.

[Wanderingdragon]

I thinking Mr Andrews' last paragraph is the reality of all IMA, not a consideration. Every strike should have the power to finish, the prime objective is to break the opponents root, this loss of center creates the weakness necessary to penetrate any conditioning. To destroy any structure you eliminate it's base. Beng quan as a body shot can reek havoc internally if fired at the opportune moment, Hsing I trains to create these opportunities.