Using baji and taiji training

[Bob]

The clips from SPJ, I believe, really captures the rhythm and flavor of xiao baji training. What you can't tell from the clips is that the upper body is relatively relaxed. When holding postures the fist is lightly held such that you can drop a pencil through it. The wrists are flexed but arms are relaxed.

As you breath in and out in a posture you think to the head, shoulder, elbow, hand, tailbone, hips and feet---that is the ideal so it totals 8 breaths and is not illustrated in the clip--its tough to get there and have the proper structural alignment.

This is interesting in light of the discussion on the Shen Wu board.

Jake asks about the "nine joints" in taijiquan.

Tim Cartmell responds: "Jake, The "Nine Joints" is a term often used in Taijiquan and refers to the shoulders, elbows, wrists, hips, knees, ankles, and three "joints" in the upper, middle and lower spine."

Jake: "Tim, thanks. Never heard that one before. How does it differ from the 7 stars (other than the back "joints")? Are there specific places in the spine they felt were "joint-like"?
Thanks
Jake

Tim Cartmell responds: "The Seven Stars refers to the use of the shoulders, elbows, hands, hips, knees and feet for striking. The Feng Fu point at the back of the neck, the Ming Men point in the center of the spine and the Wei Lu point in the coccyx are considered areas of focus for movement."

Jake: "Thanks Tim. So the "joints" are to be taken literally as the nine places the body "bends" for lack of a better term? Thanks Jake.

Tim Cartmell: "Correct."

http://www.shenwu.com/cgi-bin/discus/discus.cgi

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7kE5FvEm ... re=related



I often warm-up with two baji neigong exercises--reversing the spine [ju bi hou shen] and "eating the sun". [see http://www.wutangcenter.com/wt/bajipigua2.htm for illustrations]. Then I employ a simple qi gong/nei gong [Bai bi niu yao] standing exercise at the start of the xiao baji jia and at the end of the xiao baji jia and alternate 3 sets with 3 sets of Yang's taiji [short form] and also alternate it with some of the da qiang exercises. After da qiang exercises I also do [Bai bi niu yao (swinging the arms and striking the waist, shoulder and back areas)]. The session ends with some standing post exercise anywhere from 2-10 minutes. This is a pretty workout routine. I don't mix xiao baji postures with taiji postures or merge forms. On alternate days days bagua becomes the focus.

[SPJ]

this is a great topic and thread, but very difficult to explain.

1. neigong/ qi gong.

2. power generation and expression.

3. the theory of 9 joints or 9 sections of the body.

[SPJ]

1. In general, ba ji is extremely hard (as steel) and extreme yang. Tai Ji is extremely soft (as water/cotton) and extreme yin. but both have yin and yang within each other.

2. ba ji is more straight and square. and tai ji is more circular and circuitous. but ba ji is circle inside and square outside. and tai ji is square inside and circle outside. referring to movements.

--

[SPJ]

just to highlite some aspects.

1. neigong and qi gong. ba ji utilized yi jin jing (shaolin), tai ji used Daoist tu na breathing and qi gong methods. but both stress dan tian, cai qi (acquiring qi). --

2. power generation and expression, both from dan tian and sudden outburst/explosive qi from dan tian.

however, ba ji stress from stepping and movements (charging forward. like a spear etc), stomping and grinding stomping to generate the power

tai ji stress 5 steps( positioning) and rotation of the waist, forearm to generate the power.

yes. all the power starts from the feet.

ba ji storing/harness the power/qi in dan tian then go out.

tai ji storing the power in the waist (and from stepping/positioning, walking power or zhou jin)--

3. 9 sections of the body is a general theory in all styles. the upper 3. middle 3 and lower three.

they are considerations of power transmission, storing, expression etc.

they are also considerations of defense and attack.

such as if the opponent controls your wrist/hand, you may advance elbow,

if the opponent controls your wrist and elbow, you may sink your arm and advance shoulder.

shoulder is the root section of your arm, elbow mid section and wrist end section, like a branch of a tree.

chest, back (or abdomen, dantian) and tailbone are 3 middle sections.

hip, knee, ankle/feet are lower 3 sections.

--

[Bob]

SPJ:

Thanks for adding to the post. Hmmm, the exercise I learned called "Eating the Sun" is definitely of Daoist origin.

Here is some of the translation from Liu's book:

Baji Qi Gong

Liu Yun Qiao

Preface to the Qi Gong Set

The most important movement in the qi gong set is the hun yuan posture. The hun yuan posture is a method of nurturing the qi which is a combination of heaven, man, and earth. The posture is the beginning step to enter the Dao.

The most essential idea of the hun yuan posture is wu ji [emptiness]. Within emtiness there is reality and through reality is born tai ji. After tai ji there is liang yi [two ideas] which contains the si xiang [4 images]. The 4 images thereby create the ba gua [8 trigrams] of the body. After arriving at ba gua there is a return to wu ji [emptiness/nothingness], which is the hun yuan.

The complete process of hun yuan goes as follows: wu ji --> tai ji --> liang yi --> si xiang --> ba gua --> Liu shi si gua [64 hexagrams] --> ba gua --> si xiang --> liang yi --> tai ji --> tai ji --> wu ji.

Even though the movements of the qi gong hun yuan set is simple, the blood and qi move through the 12 meridians, 3 yin channels and 3 yang channels. There is a nuturing method to turn essence [jing] into energy [qi] and finally into spirit [shen].

With constant practice the set will benefit the body and mind. If one already has a background and is practicing the martial arts, one will gain even greater benefits by practicing the set.

The abdomen is the point of wu ji [emptiness]

The navel is the point of tai ji.

The two kidneys are the liang yi [two ideas]

The two arms and legs are teh si xiang [4 images]

The eight sections of the legs and arms are the ba gua [8 trigrams]

Combining the joints of the appendages is the liu shi si gua [64 hexagrams].

Explanation of the Exercises

1) Wu Ji [emptiness]

Step 1: Relax the entire body
Step 2: Empty the mind
Step 3: Breath deep and long maintaining calmness

2) Tai ji [extreme polarity]

Step 1: naturally lif the arms, as shown in the picture, as if holding a ball at chest level
Step 2: place your attention at the zhong gong point

3) Liang Yi [two ideas]

Step 1: naturally lower both arms as if holding something tothe lower abdomen. Slightly bend the kness.
Step 2: Maintain you attention at the zhong gong point.

4) Si Xiang [4 images]

Step 1: slowly straighten the knees
Step 2: Both arms then are lifted up to the fron of the chest.
Step 3: move the qi down into the legs and up into the arms.

5) Ba Gua [8 trigrams]

Both arms straighten to the fron. At the same time breath out through curled lips.

6) Liu Shi Si Gua [64 trigrams]

Step 1: The straightened arms are now spread out to the sides of the body at should height with palms facing up. Stretch all the limbs including the toes, fingers, arms, legs and breath in.

Step 2: The toes grab the ground and the "bubbling spring" point is lifted up. The fingers of each hand slowly bend at each joint until forming a fist. Close [hold] the breath.

7) Ba Gua [8 trigrams]

Step 1: return the arms to the sides of the shoulders

Step 2: hold the breath.

8) Si xiang [4 images]

Step 1: move the fists together at the chin.

Step 2: continue holding the breath.

9) Liang Yi [two ideas]

Step 1 use force to press the fists together

Step 2: swallow the breath

Step 3: Both fists become palms and the fingers hand naturally and relaxed.

10) Tai Ji [extreme polarity]

Step 1: The body relaxes and the hands return to the zhong gong point.

Step 2: breath out through the mouth.

11) Hun Yuan Posture

Step 1: Both arms are lowere to the side of the body.

Step 2: remove all thoughts, empty the mind.

___________________________________________________________________________________

I learned this as part of a warm-up exercise the very first day I started with Tony Yang. However, no detailed explanation was given. Later I was given the small pamphlet written by Liu [or his students] and a friend translated this for me.

One other thing is that you face the sun [sun rise] or the East in the morning when doing this and face the sun [sunset] the West in the evening.

Although I was not told directly to do this in the sunshine itself, I now do it that way.

If you go back to link above, you can find some of the diagrams in the Part II Baji article we wrote.

Later.