Li Style Taijiquan

[Jingang]

Well, I actually don't care if the performance in the video is good or not, I just wanted to see what it looks like. I know this version of the Jingang cause I've seen it before.

I wonder, do you also practice wudang's youlong taiji?

[Yuen-Ming]

Well, I actually don't care if the performance in the video is good or not, I just wanted to see what it looks like. I know this version of the Jingang cause I've seen it before.

I wonder, do you also practice wudang's youlong taiji?

It should be very similar to what you guys do, but different from what Baji (under Li Shuwen) practice. Right ?
http://www.56.com/u75/v_MjIxMTc1NDQ.html
I did some youlong too, but under different teachers. Some now mix the two style that are, however, quite different.

YM

[Bob]

Sorry to interrupt this a bit but can anyone explain to me why everytime I click the above site I am redirected to a page of other clips, not related to martial arts?

I'd love to view these clips but this redirection seems to occur on other martial arts clips from this site.

[Yuen-Ming]

Sorry to interrupt this a bit but can anyone explain to me why everytime I click the above site I am redirected to a page of other clips, not related to martial arts?

I'd love to view these clips but this redirection seems to occur on other martial arts clips from this site.

Hello Bob,

56.com seem to have some issues in the last few months and the site has been down also.
For the same reason I can't seem to be able to embed the video here on the forum.
In any case this is the direct link to the original .flv file
http://f4.r.56.com/f4.c30.56.com/flvdow ... 962288.flv

Best

YM

[Wuyizidi]

Li Ruidong (1851-1917) learned Yang TJQ from Wang Lanting, the palace mgr of Prince Duan, who learned directly from Yang Luchan. He had previously learned several other boxing styles, and with Wang went on to learn more including Yue family style and Nei Jia Bagua Qi Men Quan. He supposedly agreed not to teach Yang family TJQ at Yang Banhou's urging, and (of course) went on to develop his own style mixing TJQ with the other arts he knew. He became a coach to Prince Rui, became a fourth rank guard in the Forbidden City, and taught wushu in Beijing etc. His TJQ has several forms including Five Star Boxing, Five Dragon Fist, Five Animal Fist, and some 13 sword forms. Ma Jinlong, in the video, is the chairman of the Li Style Taijiquan Association and the author of a book on the style, Li Style T'ai Chi Five Hammer.

Supposedly is right:) Yang Banhou was a great martial art master, but he regarded Taiji Quan as a Yang family treasure, and didn't like it when other people became famous because of it or taught it. So when he had a chance meeting with Li Ruidong at an inn, Yang seize the opportunity to do something about that. It was to be a friendly discussion of skills, but casual pushing quickly turned to barely disguise fighting. Li Ruidong was the supervisor of the guards for the Forbidden City, but his skill was still a little bit below that of Yang Banhou's. The fight ended in a draw because Li Ruidong stayed (wisely) mostly on the defensive. Afterward, Li Ruidong was very angry: "I know what you really want. Fine, you can have it, I won't teach Taiji".

And that's what he did for a while. But a friend who is wiser in the ways of the world advised him "don't be so childish and spiteful. You know a lot of other things. Just put them all together and give it another name. What can Yang Banhou do then?!" So Li Ruidong created a system called Taiji Wu Xing Chui (Taiji 5 star fist). It contained practices from Xing Yi, Bagua, Shaolin, and Taiji. Within the system, he did not really mix those skills together (for example Zhang Ce's Taiji Tongbei is Tongbei incorporating Taiji principles). In his system, Taiji is Taiji, Shaolin is Shaolin...

So for political reasons, for a long time Li's system was supposedly not Taiji. Today, those personal acrimonies are irrelevant, and once again it's recognized by the public and the government as one of the "six families" within Taiji. So when most people say Li Taiji, they mean this one.

As for Ma Jinlong's (Ma shiye to me) Taiji skill: he was Gao Ruizhou's deciple. Master Gao was one of Master Wang's four blood brothers. Chinese martial art family system is patterned after traditional family structure: the moment you become someone's blood brother, you become all his teachers' disciple, and all his disciples are your disciples too. This is because of meaning of blood brother, that the two friends become one and the same in terms of duties and responsibilities. I'll look after your father or son just as if they are my own. As far as they are concerned, I am you, and you are me.

After Cultural Revolution, when Master Wang came back to Beijing from jail, Master Gao already passed away. Ma Jinlong went to Master Wang and said he wanted to learn from him. Master Wang said of course I will teach you everything without reservation. But Master Ma wanted to be 100% sure, so he actually went through another formal ceremony to become Master Wang's disciple. I don't know what Gao Ruizhou's Taiji skill was like, and I have not seen Master Ma push. So I cannot say what is distinctive about Li Style Taiji Quan, and whether Master Ma's skill is closer to Master Wang's or Master Gao's. But we know Master Ma Jinlong studied Taiji with Master Wang for more than 20 years.

Wuyizidi

[Doc Stier]

Cool! Very interesting.

Thanks for sharing, guys.

Doc

[Yuen-Ming]

Supposedly is right:) Yang Banhou was a great martial art master, but he regarded Taiji Quan as a Yang family treasure, and didn't like it when other people became famous because of it or taught it. So when he had a chance meeting with Li Ruidong at an inn, Yang seize the opportunity to do something about that. It was to be a friendly discussion of skills, but casual pushing quickly turned to barely disguise fighting. Li Ruidong was the supervisor of the guards for the Forbidden City, but his skill was still a little bit below that of Yang Banhou's. The fight ended in a draw because Li Ruidong stayed (wisely) mostly on the defensive. Afterward, Li Ruidong was very angry: "I know what you really want. Fine, you can have it, I won't teach Taiji".

Hello WYZD,

Li Ruidong never met Banhou and the story you report is uncorrect.
The meeting was between Wang Lanting and Banhou right after the death of Master Yang. My source is the Li family quanpu and the story as reported in the handwritten words of Wang Lanting and Li Ruidong.
I won't go into it openly but what you refer simply did not happen.

As for Ma Jinlong's (Ma shiye to me) Taiji skill: he was Gao Ruizhou's deciple. Master Gao was one of Master Wang's four blood brothers. Chinese martial art family system is patterned after traditional family structure: the moment you become someone's blood brother, you become all his teachers' disciple, and all his disciples are your disciples too. This is because of meaning of blood brother, that the two friends become one and the same in terms of duties and responsibilities. I'll look after your father or son just as if they are my own. As far as they are concerned, I am you, and you are me.

Again family issues here which cannot be discussed in detail on the web.

Gao Ruizhou was not a disciple of Li Ruidong and was told to "learn with them" (the group of Li's students).
I am told that his skills were good, however.

Ma Jinlong is a very nice old man and if you are "in a position to ask" (in the family) he will confirm what I am saying here.

I am sure you'll understand WYZD,

Best

YM

[river rider]

I have seen many passing references to Li family writings on IMA matters and TJQ history. Is any of this material available, or are there any good summaries out there? I haven't seen much beyond internet bullets and the Tai Chi mag interviews.