the rum soaked fist: internal martial arts forum

This is sort of a piggyback on the previous thread re centripetal force, etc. But with video so as to discuss perhaps something in more specific and narrow terms, the last post was a bit robust to begin a practical discussion I realize.

The video depicts a few simple examples of such forces at play. Unfortunately the audio setting was F-ed up (I was filming a lesson for an out of state visitor), so you can't hear my diatribe the whole time while demonstrating, probably for the better.

The very basic idea is to of course push against the ground for momentum, turn the waist / body and swing the arms.
The resulting method / technique are essentially inconsequential at this point, but it should be fairly obvious what can come from it. The movements are exaggerated to start, and more disconnected. Here the student is a prior Wing C. guy, so I'm trying to get him to relax; he also wanted things beyond the scope of his skill level on tape since he is out of state.

More caveats; Yes I know I am not perfect. My posture is a bit off (just finished a J.D., have been hunched over a computer all day for months), plus I’m battling retrolystisis (spelling?) of L5, so my back is a bit off, but I'm still moving decently considering.

Anyway, the centripetal force begins from pushing from the ground and turning the toe/knee/waist closed, while opening the opposing side using centrifugal force (my right hand in clip), as the other hand uses centripetal. Another caveat; I do not have any degree or any official academic background in physics, neurophysiology, kinesiology, etc. (my background is Avionics / IT and Law), so hopefully someone who knows more about the exact process will chime in to assist if the question/need arises and / or I get something wrong e.g. Centripetal force.

The two man portion of the clip was my first attempt at showing that student how to "soft spar" sort of a hybrid between push hands and sparring, I’m sure many of you here do the same. The idea is to keep moving, right, wrong, bad form or not, just keep the motion. It's not a contest, everyone should take turns, give and take, and not everyone you meet will be trained in the arts. Random as@ attacks from many venues should be tried on each other, even if you have to break form / connection and structure. I love working with Boxers, MT, WC guys etc, who like to keep pressure on, how else will you get better? Here, I am trying to get the student to hit me and keep moving, he is reluctant, perhaps my previous demos weren’t so soft...

So, thoughts on the physics and actual principles behind these movements? Comparisons to your own methods or movement? Constructive criticism is of course welcome (even better if you have a clip replicating and demonstrating what I do / don't do correctly from your view-- but I can probably point out how I suck in this clip just about as well as anyone...we all have stuff to work on.

http://www.flowingcombat.net/drill11.mov.3gp

Best,

Gary

It doesn't matter if your movements are not perfect as long as you practice with a clear method that has a goal. The exercises? they are quite basic (and that jump with brush knee I do have in a form I practice). I understand your idea to incorporate centripetal and centrifugal momentum into the movements. It's not important to get your point, but maybe I would like to see you having a bit clearer movements. Most of all, I do think you need to work with the axis better, your middle turning point or center of equilibrium. Like when you do the brush knee, use the turning movement of the body more. Maybe a closer shot and another angle would show your movements better.

Most of all, I like the idea of breaking down movements and analyse the physics behind them. If we understand the physics, we can refine our techinques/movements/methods to make the physics clearer. The main point of course is that we will either work with physical principles or against them, either we are aware of it or not. If we really understand physics, we can put layers and layers of different principles which can work together. Thus we can accomplish much more and at the same time develop our skills faster while we save both time and effort.

I think the Michael Phillips clips with good punching techniqus could be interesting to compare with. (which I guess everyone allready have watched.) He breaks his punch down into many different principles that he coordinates in one movement: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tkO7wuCSBYA One thing he speaks about is "from circle to a spiral": "The centrifugal force throws it out... the centripetal force whips it back" Do you consider this to be in line with the subject you are addressing?

When I first started circle walking, there was an appearance of falling into the circle but as "I got better" I has the impression I was able to "be balanced' and remain on the periphery. It took about 3 months. There are times when I do not practice enough, the feeling of "falling into the circle" is present.

Bao wrote:It doesn't matter if your movements are not perfect as long as you practice with a clear method that has a goal. The exercises? they are quite basic (and that jump with brush knee I do have in a form I practice). I understand your idea to incorporate centripetal and centrifugal momentum into the movements.

Sure, nothing is perfect, the goal is certainly clear and tested. Of course the exercises are quite basic! I would hope you have something similar in your form, it is neijia derived.

Bao wrote:It's not important to get your point, but maybe I would like to see you having a bit clearer movements. Most of all, I do think you need to work with the axis better, your middle turning point or center of equilibrium. Like when you do the brush knee, use the turning movement of the body more. Maybe a closer shot and another angle would show your movements better.

The movements are plenty clear if you know what you are looking at sans bias filter. The wing chun instructor thought it very clear... Axis is fine, crooked spine and all, I can still toss around a few hundred pound man, and one that can bench 500 without hurting myself... But your right, I could probably use a better camera angle - had no camera man, tripod and private lesson.

Bao wrote:Most of all, I like the idea of breaking down movements and analyse the physics behind them. If we understand the physics, we can refine our techinques/movements/methods to make the physics clearer. The main point of course is that we will either work with physical principles or against them, either we are aware of it or not. If we really understand physics, we can put layers and layers of different principles which can work together. Thus we can accomplish much more and at the same time develop our skills faster while we save both time and effort.

For sure, we need more people to look at things from this angle, and not dwell on the mystical explanations.

Bao wrote:I think the Michael Phillips clips with good punching techniqus could be interesting to compare with. (which I guess everyone allready have watched.) He breaks his punch down into many different principles that he coordinates in one movement: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tkO7wuCSBYA One thing he speaks about is "from circle to a spiral": "The centrifugal force throws it out... the centripetal force whips it back" Do you consider this to be in line with the subject you are addressing?

Video was private before I could look....

Thanks for the reply.

Best,

G

Oh, and the link no longer works for the record, here is the clip on youtube link:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ldtDIWiqiuU

yeniseri wrote:When I first started circle walking, there was an appearance of falling into the circle but as "I got better" I has the impression I was able to "be balanced' and remain on the periphery. It took about 3 months. There are times when I do not practice enough, the feeling of "falling into the circle" is present.

Yeah, it's certainly a product of the momentum and adjusting.