Deep Butterfly Half for Graham & Pete

[Wanderingdragon]

G. You're just tryin to make my case right, cause in a fight if you can make the throw properly, the ground does a great deal of work for you.

[gzregorz]

I haven't had a chance to watch the video but yes there are times when getting up may not be so easy which is why some ground game is part of most wrestling styles yet not the main focus.

I mean forget about styles, just imagine trying to get up when a 300 pound biker is on top of you!

But I don't think bjj is the only game in town for that. In fact in the ufc most bjj guys are having one hell of a time with wrestlers these days, of course those wrestlers do bjj too though.

[Dmitri]

Pete, that was incredible. The guy's ground game reminded me of some aspects of Anderson Silva's stand-up game. Excellent work... So relaxed and free, and yet in full control... Thanks for posting that; was an absolute pleasure to watch.


Graham that last one was... something else... Wow.
On my first-ever sparring night I got absolutely taken apart by a (very good and somewhat "rough") purple belt (he's now black), with a frequency of about 2 submissions per minute of rolling , -- but dammit, at least I wasn't groaning and screaming...


As for the OP -- I've actually been doing that when I can have it, just intuitively, and yeah it's a great way to control, even if briefly. I'm talking about the part at 6:30. Problems with it: 1) it's hard to get a good grip on the foot (at least for me); good guys are usually very careful with letting that sort of thing happen. And 2), I always try to be aware of possible stomps and strikes and such, so you don't wanna "hang out" there for too long anyway... WAY too open for some serious head punishment IMHO.

[gzregorz]

For example, I don't think most fighters would be able to these guys down and into a bad position.

[fuga]

Pete, that was incredible. The guy's ground game reminded me of some aspects of Anderson Silva's stand-up game. Excellent work... So relaxed and free, and yet in full control... Thanks for posting that; was an absolute pleasure to watch.

Galvao was pissed because the fellow apparently tried to illegally reap his knee. Backstory was also that the guy was not a BJJ black but some other kind and entered the tournament.

Graham that last one was... something else... Wow.
On my first-ever sparring night I got absolutely taken apart by a (very good and somewhat "rough") purple belt (he's now black), with a frequency of about 2 submissions per minute of rolling , -- but dammit, at least I wasn't groaning and screaming...

I was actually surprised not to see any submission attempts or even any knee rides. I was laughing at the groaning and screaming.

[gzregorz]

Watched the videos, thanks for sharing. Galvao also trains judo so he's ready for anything. I think in G's video the purple probably had some judo because they like those nasty painful pins. I have to admit though, I hate seeing people just pin in bjj.

Dmitri, I hear you. It is a tough position to keep control of. My feeling on half guard is you want to try to hit the sweep ASAP. I love that knee pinch leg lock though, I imagine most people won't see that coming. The main issue I have is people don't put that knee up at my gym.

Btw Graham, if you ever change your mind I've heard good things about the judo club at the University of Bath.

[GrahamB]

Greg, yeah Bath Uni has a lot of Olympic Judoca - we had a European Champion teaching Judo at our gym for a bit - but with two young children there are only so many training sessions a Dad is allowed to go to, so I have to pick what I'm really interested in.

In that video where the purple belt pins the black belt I thought he was trying to make a point, hence the lack of submission attempts. When I started BJJ I have to admit my soft flabby tai chi body made those same noises - I toughened up quick though! Peter I was laughing at that video too, going " yep, that used to be me"

D - I suspect you wouldn't experience that kind of constant pressure in your more self defence on da streetz-orientated style perhaps? It's a hell of a thing when a black belt does it to you - worth checking out a more sporty club to experience it.

Back to the original video - Greg I find I can get that position quite a lot using the shooting in method he describes, even if they don't out a knee up - you just force them to put a knee up by getting under them, or pulling them on top of you. However I've been working on this for months already, aiming to get a single leg x guard from kneeling, which is harder - this is actually easier to go for. There must be a video of Marcelo showing his entries for single leg x guard on YouTube somewhere.... Of course, if they stand you need to be ready for x guard or single leg x guard type adaptations to the position - you can still use the original technique position, keep the left hand grip and the right underhook, just now bring your other leg into play to get a x guard sweep. Body type must be a factor too - I've got short, thick, flexible Hobbit legs, which is why I like these sorts of positions. Long thin legs would find this harder I think. - it might not suit.

[gzregorz]

Cheers Graham,

I can see how more knowledge of the X guard would help fill in some gaps. Because the times I have caught it I ended up doing a modified X guard sweep anyway by using my two legs on their one and just extending the X to make them sit down.

Also at my gym people have learned that if they put their knee up I'm going to go straight to deep half and sweep them. So I will have to be a little more on top of game to get the entry.

Even though it's a work in progress it has already helped. Sometimes when I go to half guard I'll be facing away from my opponent (the wrong way) and ocassionally I just sweep them that way (with some luck), sometimes they'll post and I'll have to grab that arm to get them to go over, but now watching the Danes I'll also put their other leg on my shoulder (as he does and as you do in deep half) and then that sweep is a lot more high percentage (being that I created a triangle). I don't recommend this position, especially since there are gi chokes there for the other guy to catch you in but when you're tired and don't want to waste the energy fighting to face in it's a nice sweep, with no gi it works even better because you don't have to worry about getting collar choked.

I'll keep working on it, it'll take awhile but I can see it's gold. When those guys do it they just tear through their opponents thinking they're safe.

[Dmitri]

D - I suspect you wouldn't experience that kind of constant pressure in your more self defence on da streetz-orientated style perhaps? It's a hell of a thing when a black belt does it to you - worth checking out a more sporty club to experience it.

Nah, the "more self-defense blah-blah..." stuff is mostly what I personally try to keep in mind when I practice ('try', not even 'always do'). We have many guys who love to hold on to the gi exclusively, and 99% never worry about what would happen if punching was allowed or if the gi wasn't there. But yeah, I've been on the receiving end of the kind of overwhelming smothering pressure you're talking about enough times. I still wouldn't make any "vocal" sounds though, aside from mechanical breathing difficulties maybe.
Maybe it was his Japanese-style intentional kiai-like sounds -- I dunno. Just sounded weird (and funny) to me, that's all.

[fuga]

Maybe it was his Japanese-style intentional kiai-like sounds

[GrahamB]

Maybe it was his Japanese-style intentional kiai-like sounds

I think 4.23 is one of the ancient healing sounds

[GrahamB]

I spent a 6 week period where I started every single roll from under side control. It was well worth the time spent as I learned to be comfortable underneath there, understood the typical attacks and how to defend and eventually was able to find the escapes. For a little guy, it is all about creating and finding the space to reinsert the knee if you are looking to recover guard.

Amen brother - keep it simple:



Kid has 3 iPad/iPhone apps; damn, I'm going to have to buy all of them

[gzregorz]

Two weeks later and I've been having a lot of luck with this one. Haven't been imposing an entry I just wait until they put a knee up and take it, works wonders because they don't think anything of it until it's too late.

Also instead of hooking the knee with your leg you go over it you have a waiter sweep with everything else being the same, although grabbing their belt with the other hand helps too.

[GrahamB]

Two weeks later and I've been having a lot of luck with this one. Haven't been imposing an entry I just wait until they put a knee up and take it, works wonders because they don't think anything of it until it's too late.

Yep - I agree - much better to work with what they give you than force a position.

Haven't had much of a chance to try this - rolled with an overly rough guy on Monday and got smashed - ended up with a mild concussion from knees to the head! Only light training since .... grrrrrr hate it when that happens.

Also if you hook the knee with your leg but go over it you have a waiter sweep with everything else being the same, although grabbing their belt with the other hand helps too.

You mean if he stands up?

[middleway]

Graham,

Was doing this escape which is pretty similar a lot last night.



Was super effective

Professor Neale was also showing us some great z Guard throws. good night rolling around was had by all!

Cheers
Chris