body method

[somatai]

So here is an attempt at putting out what I think is a simple and useful way to think of body method and what is being asked of you. I am going to try and make some more focused vids on training and this is a quick start. This is also related to some of the conversations on explaining what one is doing. It is my opinion that the feeling is more useful than the physiology(not to say one cannot have both) and I wonder if this makes sense to some. THis is what i think the intent of quan is in the name.....but i am not a chinese speaker


understand that this is intended to be overt in that it is demonstration, open and close can be done with different flavors for sure, but I am pointing to the crudest level of the physical which i think is an essential place to start.

I would love to see other folks methods as well

[Wanderingdragon]

Nice work, two ideas that help me try to understand the open and close of the body is
1. a visual of a spring compressed and expanding. It offers to me the essence of the power generation, much like your demo.
2. A snake as it propels itself forward, in simple movement as well as in striking. It offers to me the smooth and perpetual motion we necessitate in our body method by the footwork. The foot is the hand we are one piece.

[Overlord]

So here is an attempt at putting out what I think is a simple and useful way to think of body method and what is being asked of you. I am going to try and make some more focused vids on training and this is a quick start. This is also related to some of the conversations on explaining what one is doing. It is my opinion that the feeling is more useful than the physiology(not to say one cannot have both) and I wonder if this makes sense to some. THis is what i think the intent of quan is in the name.....but i am not a chinese speaker


understand that this is intended to be overt in that it is demonstration, open and close can be done with different flavors for sure, but I am pointing to the crudest level of the physical which i think is an essential place to start.

I would love to see other folks methods as well

Thanks Derek!

BTW, do you breath in when contract or breath out?
Thanks in advance.

Over

[somatai]

Thanks guys.....wd, I like the spring/compression idea as it is easy to feel and create a signature sensation with, I think that is key, many ways to say it, as long as there is an associative feeling I think it is useful.

Over, the breath should enter with the space created in the the opening.......exhalation is the volitional phase of the breath and exhaling is like wringing out a sponge it powers the he

[C.J.W.]

From my experience, in CMA there are basically two schools of thought regarding kai/he (opening/closing); some describe kai/he as two actions on a continuum (i.e. open then close or close then open), while others think of them as simultaneously co-existing.

[charles]

From my experience, in CMA there are basically two schools of thought regarding kai/he (opening/closing); some describe kai/he as two actions on a continuum (i.e. open then close or close then open), while others think of them as simultaneously co-existing.

Or three: some part open while other parts close. I think it is largely semantics, though.

[Wanderingdragon]

No, as simple as yin and yang is open and close.

[Bhassler]

So here is an attempt at putting out what I think is a simple and useful way to think of body method and what is being asked of you. I am going to try and make some more focused vids on training and this is a quick start. This is also related to some of the conversations on explaining what one is doing. It is my opinion that the feeling is more useful than the physiology(not to say one cannot have both) and I wonder if this makes sense to some. THis is what i think the intent of quan is in the name.....but i am not a chinese speaker

Dammit, man! Now I feel like I gotta put up or shut up. I'll see if I can get a video together to show what I mean and why I mean it that way. But this is a great way to further the conversation, so thanks.

[Bao]

I liked the clip. Simple and to the point. Most of people probably won't understand how important the info provided here actually is.

Just a question. Do you use the back, stomach or just let the arms drop when you lower your arms?

[everything]

Looks good. For me "opening" or "closing" someone else: opponent, training partner, etc., is most helpful. I believe I heard it from ilc folks. Opening/closing, I think of as "split" (tjq).

[somatai]

So here is an attempt at putting out what I think is a simple and useful way to think of body method and what is being asked of you. I am going to try and make some more focused vids on training and this is a quick start. This is also related to some of the conversations on explaining what one is doing. It is my opinion that the feeling is more useful than the physiology(not to say one cannot have both) and I wonder if this makes sense to some. THis is what i think the intent of quan is in the name.....but i am not a chinese speaker

Dammit, man! Now I feel like I gotta put up or shut up. I'll see if I can get a video together to show what I mean and why I mean it that way. But this is a great way to further the conversation, so thanks.

Sweet.....that is what I was hoping might happen

Bao.....the closing comes from the front body....it is a full whole body flexion with the verticality of the spine creating the opposition to balance it

Open and closing depend upon, contain and create eachother
Thanks for all input

[Bao]

Bao.....the closing comes from the front body....it is a full whole body flexion with the verticality of the spine creating the opposition to balance it

That's what I thought. With that in mind, I would not call this body method "kai he", or "open/close" in a strict sense. I would call it "stretching and folding". It's not that your method is something less, but it's something different than "kai he" in a strict sense.

"He" or close does not mean "close" and that is a bad translation. "He" means "connect". Kai/he = open/close means either to open up your body for the qi to flow and then connect the structure in such a way so you can circulate your qi. Or it just means to stabilize your structure.

[GrahamB]

Nice video Somatai.

Very clear what you're saying

A few questions:

1. The movement is big. Like HUGE - the open and close couldn't be bigger or smaller- I've often heard 'train big, use small' - what are your/XinYi's approaches and thoughts to working this body method into applications?

2. What are your thoughts on staying relaxed? Or not? Or is it just not an issue - when you stretch to the extreme open you can't say it's 'relaxed' - equally the extreme contraction is obvioulsy going to involve some sort of tensions. Is it a question of the 'right' sorts of tension?

3. Is open and close for striking only - or can you use it for other things - like stepping away from a punch or kick? Defending a wrist grab? Defending a strangle? What if somebody is choking from behind? I guess what I'm asking is - is this method used in all circumstances all the time, or is it specific to particular situations?

[NoSword]

Great video and all that. Graham phrased my own questions better than I could myself. He didn't ask me, but I would like to address #2:

In order to understand the difference between "good" tension and "bad" tension I think it's important to understand the distinction between concentric and eccentric contractions. Basically, the rule of thumb I like to follow is, "all lines must lead away from the body." This is really a specific instance of the general injunction, "your mind must be outside of your body," or "your attention cannot be self-absorbed." There are exceptions (sometimes a line can be appearing to lead toward the body when really it's leading through it), but this is a good guideline. If you make certain to always use eccentric contractions rather than concentric ones, your structure will be continually expanding; local tensions will dissipate while the global tension (qi) in the system will always be increasing.

The idea of eccentric contraction is easy to understand with 'kai,' where all the lines plainly and visibly lead away from the body. It's harder to understand in 'he,' where the untrained eye might mistake an eccentric contraction for a concentric one. The best example I can think of is xingyi's drilling fist, which bears a superficial resemblance to a flexed bicep a la Popeye. Indeed, bad xingyi tends to interpret it as such -- see the "Isometric Xingyi?" thread. If it were actually this sort of a movement, you could draw a small line looping from your fist back toward your bicep.

Really, there are two lines, and both of them lead away from the body. According to the songs, the nose, the elbow and the fist go on the same line. That means there is one line leading from the fist out toward the horizon in a straight line. The other line leads from the elbow toward the opposite side of the body, adducting the arm toward the sagittal plane. Since the neutral position of the elbow would be somewhere between the shoulder and the hand, this takes effort and adds tension to the system, connecting the arm to the body and creating a unified structure. But since the tension is oriented away from the body, it creates a different effect from an ordinary isometric contraction.

Dunno if that helps but as you can see I've given this question a great deal of consideration, thought I would share it for everyone's interest and amusement.

AK

[baguaboy]

somatai - this is a nice video - thank you!

GrahamB - for what its worth i like to do 1>3 like thus but it may differ wildly from what Somatai uses!
1: Train big to small frame with form to develop the 'chewy' body consistency
2: The right sort of tension IS relaxed extension, so that nothing gets locked out so that movement is overly restricted.
3: Some things are easy to show in simplistic terms as big small / up down / left right / in out etc, but when i think of leverage in grappling up close i constantly try and refer to finding the body connection of myself and others in the struggle from dominance. Sometimes it is difficult! Its useful to train body method to not so much develop yourself but more like understand everyone else's consistency IMO. We are all the same under under our flesh after all!