Andy_S wrote:Given this, I am consistently bemused why certain forum members decline to take even a basic course in groundfighting to round out their skillsets. From comments here, I get the impression that some martial artists of long training have never - not even ONCE - sampled this important skillset.
Wanderingdragon wrote:Just curious, what kind of work is done on spacial orientation , on your way down, as part of jujitsu basic skills development?
Wanderingdragon wrote:Thanks guys, The reason I ask is because the ground game in fighting is, IMO, predicated on your inability to get up not on your ability to go down, so again IMO, an emphasis should be placed on knowing where you're going when your going down would have a great impact on who gets up first, rather than play precursor to a wrestling match. It is why you see most ground work in IMA begins with rolling out, reverse throws and breakfalls, before working on actual ground technique. Much of which is missed by those who don't take the time to learn the art they study, and then go on to "teach".
Ian Cipperly wrote:Greg,
Well, of course throws and take downs were more common in the old days! BJJ came from judo. The sad thing is that *both* judo and bjj have departed so far from what they were (and for sport's sake). Judo (competition under the IJF) no longer allows leg touching, cross grips at all, leg locks of any sort, etc...BJJ experts are not necessarily great at takedowns.
Bjj, at least, has the excuse to be specializing on the ground. Judo, on the other hand, is being run into the ground (technically) for the sake of TV popularity (as an American, that baffles me). A real shame!
bailewen wrote:Wanderingdragon wrote:Thanks guys, The reason I ask is because the ground game in fighting is, IMO, predicated on your inability to get up not on your ability to go down, so again IMO, an emphasis should be placed on knowing where you're going when your going down would have a great impact on who gets up first, rather than play precursor to a wrestling match. It is why you see most ground work in IMA begins with rolling out, reverse throws and breakfalls, before working on actual ground technique. Much of which is missed by those who don't take the time to learn the art they study, and then go on to "teach".
Nope. Not even close.
As I said on some other thread with a similar topic about a week back...it all comes down to that old saying, "position before submission". Same goes for getting up. If you can't get the position, you can't get up. It's kind of irrelevant to know where your going when you go down to tell who gets up first because, first, if the other guy is a groundfighter, he isn't getting up...and most likely, neither are you. There's no first or second if neither one of you gets up. Second, because regardless of where you go down, you need to know a few specifics to get up and again....for the most part, you need to get the position first. You can only get up if you are on top and even then you need to know how to not get swept on your way up. If you've got side control or mount, pretty easy but those are both extremely unlikely to happen at
random. 90% of the time, the best you can hope for, and it happens a lot if you have a decent base, is you end up in
guard and guard can be a sonofabitch to stand up from.
Rolling out and breakfalls are worthless if the guy wants to go down with you. Those things only protect you against getting thrown. For take downs, not so much.
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