Zhang Zhankui (Zhang Zhaodong) xingyi

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Zhang Zhankui (Zhang Zhaodong) xingyi

Postby D_Glenn on Sat Oct 04, 2008 10:30 pm

"Sifu Zhang Shuhua was born in 1936. He started his wushu life while still very young. In the beginning he learnt Xingyi Quan from Sifu Qian Shujiao. Who was a student of Sifu Zhang Zhankui, better known as Lightning Hand in the late Qing dynasty. Sifu Zhang was neighbor to Sifu Qian, this made his kongfu training very convenient. Sifu Zhang soon became his best disciple. Sifu Qian had 4 disciples who he loved very much. People called them Sanzhang yili, meaning Three Zhangs and One Li. ( 3 of Sifu Qians disciples family names are Zhang, and one of them is Li.) ..."

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=mQGwREjz29I

and maybe bagua:

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=XCAhkHO8cBo



I wonder if "his force is all wrong." ;D


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Last edited by D_Glenn on Sat Oct 04, 2008 10:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Zhang Zhankui (Zhang Zhaodong) xingyi

Postby mixjourneyman on Sun Oct 05, 2008 4:52 am

Nice pot shot Dglenn.

I don't think that his xingyi is Zhang style because it doesn't resemble even closely what I was taught or have seen in other Zhang style lineage videos. But I could be wrong.
Anyone else notice his shen fa is kind of weird. Do you think he's trying to do hua jin or something?
It doesn't really look like great xingyi to me, as his hand leg coordination is off in a lot of movements.
I'm not trying to stir up shit, just making some basic commentary on what I see. :)


ps.Believe me, I would love to see some clips that are really good examples of Zhang's xingyi or bagua. There really aren't any excellent ones on youtube. Alex Kozma's students do a couple good ones, but thats about it.
Last edited by mixjourneyman on Sun Oct 05, 2008 4:55 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Zhang Zhankui (Zhang Zhaodong) xingyi

Postby mixjourneyman on Sun Oct 05, 2008 4:54 am

[youtube]youtube.com[/youtube]

This clip isn't perfect but at least he clearly has what I believe is Zhang's flavour.
This is one of the clips I base my comparison on.

ps.sorry, I tried to link to the clip, but my computer is fucked up.
If you want to see it, search for Alex Kozma. The video is of his student and is called pi quan.
Last edited by mixjourneyman on Sun Oct 05, 2008 4:56 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Zhang Zhankui (Zhang Zhaodong) xingyi

Postby mixjourneyman on Sun Oct 05, 2008 5:01 am

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fyUPgp0Lhy4

There at least the link works
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Re: Zhang Zhankui (Zhang Zhaodong) xingyi

Postby mixjourneyman on Sun Oct 05, 2008 5:09 am



A clip of Sha Guozheng doing xingyi bagua Deerhorn knife.
He was a student of Jiang Rongqiao, who was a student of Zhang's so its pretty close to the source.
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Re: Zhang Zhankui (Zhang Zhaodong) xingyi

Postby mixjourneyman on Sun Oct 05, 2008 5:13 am



A student of Sha's doing Jiang's Wu Xing.
Note the similarity between Kozma's student and this guy.
Same flavour of movements, similar small movements.
I think this video is the closest thing to Zhang's xingyi that is currently on youtube. :)
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Re: Zhang Zhankui (Zhang Zhaodong) xingyi

Postby mixjourneyman on Sun Oct 05, 2008 5:28 am

Anyways, having given all the evidence I have, I will retreat from this thread, which I imagine will turn into a flame war directed at me.
;D
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Re: Zhang Zhankui (Zhang Zhaodong) xingyi

Postby edededed on Sun Oct 05, 2008 6:01 am

Damn yoooouu!!!! ;D

I dunno about Zhang Zhaodong's lineage, but it does seem that every of the many Li Cunyi lineage guys out there do their xingyi a bit differently... Did Li teach everyone differently, or did everyone learn differently? :D
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Re: Zhang Zhankui (Zhang Zhaodong) xingyi

Postby D_Glenn on Sun Oct 05, 2008 6:51 am

Mix, just calm down, take some deep breaths. :)


Despite looking like he's 50, you do realize the guy is 72 years old, so of course it's hua jin. If you want my opinion the guy looks damn good and I'll bet he can still kick some serious ass if he had to. You can see it in his movement.


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Re: Zhang Zhankui (Zhang Zhaodong) xingyi

Postby D_Glenn on Sun Oct 05, 2008 2:29 pm

mixjourneyman wrote:

A student of Sha's doing Jiang's Wu Xing.
Note the similarity between Kozma's student and this guy.
Same flavour of movements, similar small movements.
I think this video is the closest thing to Zhang's xingyi that is currently on youtube. :)



First thing that should be evident in a clip is the dantian moving the hands, in a horizontal plane its easy - waist moves the shoulders, in a vertical plane the dantian moves the spine and rib-cage. If this is the best example of Zhang's Xingyi then I think it's safe to say Zhang's Xingyi has become a 'dead art'. :'(


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Re: Zhang Zhankui (Zhang Zhaodong) xingyi

Postby I-mon on Sun Oct 05, 2008 5:36 pm

it's rare to see someone this relaxed.
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Re: Zhang Zhankui (Zhang Zhaodong) xingyi

Postby chrislomas on Mon Oct 06, 2008 2:56 am

Zhang Zhaodong was experimenting with his XingYi and Bagua his whole life (from what I hear in our lineage anyhow), of course different expressions will arise from his teaching, art and skill always grow and develop with practice as do teaching methods and stresses. Will Yang Hai's art still look the same when he is 72? I would hope not. Would you presume to see and understand his abilities with 30 more years hard practice?

As for D_Glens analysis of the performance I completely agree with it, the power seems to be largely generated on the horizontal plane. Still perhaps he is simplifying for a demo to help people get basics (I personally always teach people this aspect first before adding in any other components). Who knows :) .

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Re: Zhang Zhankui (Zhang Zhaodong) xingyi

Postby xingyijuan on Mon Oct 06, 2008 6:13 am

Will Yang Hai's art still look the same when he is 72?


It will not. It will be more deep in understanding and expression. It will not, however, be completely off like some of the expressions we see today. Principles are principles. I know that Yang Hai will rather go deeper into the principles than change them to fit his age.
"Power cannot exist without movement"Yang Hai

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Re: Zhang Zhankui (Zhang Zhaodong) xingyi

Postby chrislomas on Mon Oct 06, 2008 6:44 am

Interesting. In your opinions what principles are missing/incorrect in the first video clip?
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Re: Zhang Zhankui (Zhang Zhaodong) xingyi

Postby Josealb on Mon Oct 06, 2008 8:43 am

I think the first clip lacked a bit of intent, but the thing i dont forget is that its just a clip. Did the guy care about a clip thats going for youtube? was he taking it slow on purpose? was he sick? was he feeling lazy? is he past his prime? how do we measure a clip if theres no way to tell if thats the real way that he does things?
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