the rum soaked fist: internal martial arts forum

If one understands chinese seating arrangements, this photo should shed some important light on what happened in the village, what Feng's function and position was there and if Feng got his arse kicked or not.....

Byron,

Feng, FaKe's daughter, and the others on the bench are direct students of Chen FaKe, making them 18th generation Chen-style, while the back row of CXW and the others ... those guys are 19th generation. So naturally they go to the back row. It's traditional to have the earlier generation in the front and it means nothing about ability, etc.

GrahamB wrote:Byron,

Feng, FaKe's daughter, and the others on the bench are direct students of Chen FaKe,

The woman in the photo is Chen Liqing, of Xiao Jia. She does not appear to have been a student of Chen Fake.

http://www.pachentaiji.com/index3.html

Charles - I think you are correct. However, she'd still be 18th generation Chen style.

She does not appear to have been a student of Chen Fake.

wow so complicated, all the lineage, hstory and ancestory...if only there was a way to see whose taichi is better...oh wait...

bartekb wrote:wow so complicated, all the lineage, hstory and ancestory...if only there was a way to see whose taichi is better...oh wait...

How dare you interject reality in our fantasy.

It's sooooo much easier to talk about than do.

end of this week Im visiting a small judo group to ask whether I can come to their class duringh holidays and train/spar. Most likely at the end of the class there will be randori and at the end of this randori we will all know exactly where I fit into that group:)
The older I get the more I appreciate simple approach.

This is how my teacher moves Charles. "Note that forward lean". Zhang Lu Ping was from Chen Zhaokui.
so about half is from Chen Zhaokui's side, the other half from Wang Hai Jun / Chen Zhenglei side.

Byron,

Feng, FaKe's daughter, and the others on the bench are direct students of Chen FaKe, making them 18th generation Chen-style, while the back row of CXW and the others ... those guys are 19th generation. So naturally they go to the back row. It's traditional to have the earlier generation in the front and it means nothing about ability, etc.

This photo is from Feng's trip to teach in Chen Jia Gou. I am neither a Chen practitioner, nor a student of anyone in this debate, but I think the changing of history today, the making up of bullshit stories, as well as the discrediting of Feng, in spite of what is common knowledge, is distasteful.

I am neither a student of anyone in this debate or Chen style either. My point was that whoever you are a student of seems to colour your version of history, and that we can't know either way what happened.

My point was that whoever you are a student of seems to colour your version of history, and that we can't know either way what happened.

That's why it's called his story

willie wrote:This is how my teacher moves Charles. "Note that forward lean". Zhang Lu Ping was from Chen Zhaokui.
so about half is from Chen Zhaokui's side, the other half from Wang Hai Jun / Chen Zhenglei side.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eGWJxJndw6o

Interesting it seems to have a Wu style flavor to it.
I wonder if its for the same reasons.

nice clip

How the taiji forms could be applied practically in a fight baffled me for years. Most of Yang Chengfu's application photos seemed absurd and ridiculous, as were Cheng Man-Ching's similar interpretations. The dilemma persists today, as those who remember the bickering here about Single Whip a while ago will know.

Once someone in the know shows you how, the clouds disappear. The form is simply a method to develop the subtle body skills and physical framework, in which the techniques remain deeply hidden at first. When the right feelings start to arrive (the different 'jins') the applications appear naturally from the forms.

Most of them are pretty counter-intuitive and invisible to the ordinary observer, who may assume that, for instance, when your front hand pushes forward and your gaze follows that you must be striking something with it. Not so - you may be training to to stretch, open or snap something. Is a clenched fist only for hitting? I may do it because I want to smash something with my ulna or elbow; the fist is there simply to transfer extra solidity to the point of impact.

Watch how He Jinbao applies bagua principles to fight, often in seemingly weird ways, or the many shoulder, back and elbow techniques hidden in Feng Zhiqiang's demonstrations and you'll start to get the general idea behind this. Plenty of people here already know that, of course.

Wanting to hide the real skill is a traditional Chinese cultural thing and made practical sense in martial arts' original context (would you show a potential enemy you have a gun?). Martial sports-minded Westerners dislike it, but then plenty of Chinese dislike it too - which is why they prefer more obviously practical systems like sanda, boxing or muay thai. Once they understand what IMA really have to offer they often modify their views.

GrahamB wrote:I am neither a student of anyone in this debate or Chen style either. My point was that whoever you are a student of seems to colour your version of history, and that we can't know either way what happened.

If you're interested, find someone with decent background and skills who isn't a student of FZQ or CXW and has touched hands 'for real' with both of them. At least you'll then have a chance of discovering part of that elusive 'truth'.

Just because you don't know doesn't have to mean that no-one else does either.

Btw, I'm referring to the recurring question about who has what and how they got it. The larger historical background may be of interest mainly to theoreticians, philosophers and scholars. Not that there's anything wrong with that.

Just one man's view, of course.

willie wrote:This is how my teacher moves Charles.

Thanks.

"If you're interested,"... and that's where you lost me....