Eccentric exercise, breathing, body contraction, grip

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Re: Eccentric exercise, breathing, body contraction, grip

Postby tsurugi on Wed Jan 29, 2014 7:36 pm

I agree that Steve Maxwell's physique/development is similar to the results you can expect from this method. I imagine he'd be a bit miffed if you told him he hadn't managed to induce any muscle hypertrophy though.

Also I'm aware of the fact that low intensity exercise cannot stimulate sufficient muscle fibers to either genuinely induce muscular failure or cause muscle growth but the book does not suggest low intensity high reps - it suggests maximal tension at a specific cadence which towards the end of each set becomes anything but low intensity.

The Mcmasters study demonstrated that as the type one fibers tire the muscle is forced to recruit all other fibers sequentially until muscular failure occur, however if you believe that it is impossible to achieve significant muscular fatigue/ intense enough training stimulus without heavy resistance you are certainly not alone in the world of sports science.

My Partner got her first class honors degree from a Manchester university with an internationally renowned center for rehabilitation and human performance research. she read my book and found no problem with the information and neither did her professors to whom she passed the manuscript - I've had a chat with the head of sports rehabilitation and a senior lecturer in sports biomechanics & strength/conditioning about possibly doing some e.m.g testing on this.

They are very interested and fully accept that the regime should work as advertised - but they have similar reservations to yourself about the focused light weight work being solely responsible for the hypertrophy I have experienced from the training - it has been suggested that the slow calisthenics and particularly the one legged squats are chiefly responsible - even though the most visible growth has been in the arms and shoulders rather than the legs.

I have some photos on my hard drive of some of the early 19th/20th century before and after photos of students of Edmond Desbonnet - who used this method - anybody know how would I go about posting them? I only know how to link to a pic online
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Re: Eccentric exercise, breathing, body contraction, grip

Postby Patrick on Thu Jan 30, 2014 1:08 am

I find it awesome that you really thought deeply about that stuff. Like you I can only try to understand this stuff by the current knowledge availabe and my experience. At the moment I will stand by my opinion, but I am looking forward to New findings by you.
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Re: Eccentric exercise, breathing, body contraction, grip

Postby tsurugi on Thu Jan 30, 2014 2:15 am

Patrick

cheers - if I can fund the e.m.g study or figure out a way to get it slyly included in my girlfriends phd research (the current plan) I'll let you know :)

Dubster - thanks man glad you got something concrete from it


I really would like to post those cool old results pics - do I have to put them up on the net somewhere first ?
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Re: Eccentric exercise, breathing, body contraction, grip

Postby Patrick on Thu Jan 30, 2014 3:18 am

Try Postimage.org
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Re: Eccentric exercise, breathing, body contraction, grip

Postby tsurugi on Thu Jan 30, 2014 7:30 am

Thanks - ok lets try this...

Image
screenshot pc

one of the original before and after results photo's from Edmond Desbonnet's version of the exercises. Desbonnet is featured in my book and was another student of Attila - in his book - in French - the light dumbbell routine was identical to Sandow's version just with the exercises in a slightly different order.

These old result photo's aren't in my original book but they will be in the second edition and on the website - when I finally get it finished.
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Re: Eccentric exercise, breathing, body contraction, grip

Postby Dubster on Thu Jan 30, 2014 12:12 pm

Patrick wrote:I find it awesome that you really thought deeply about that stuff. Like you I can only try to understand this stuff by the current knowledge availabe and my experience. At the moment I will stand by my opinion, but I am looking forward to New findings by you.


Hi Patrick,

Awesome, positive response.

Bless you.

D
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Re: Eccentric exercise, breathing, body contraction, grip

Postby Patrick on Sun Feb 02, 2014 12:36 pm

Just a suggestion, why not use in the front shoulder raise exercise the full ROM?
Strongfort had the same exercise in his programm just to the perpendicular.

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Re: Eccentric exercise, breathing, body contraction, grip

Postby tsurugi on Mon Feb 03, 2014 7:11 am

Hi Patrick

Basically just because I wanted to present Attila's original set of exercises - I also included some variations from Strongfort and Treloar that I had personally found useful.


I just found that the front raise to parallel or just past parallel as recommended by Attila, Sandow, Treloar and Desbonnet worked best for me - feels like after a certain point you lose the leverage effect of the small weight.

Also if someone has tightness in any of the rotator cuff muscles, is a bit round shouldered or has a small subacromial space, doing it all the way to vertical for highish reps could cause tendon impingement issues and I wanted the routine to be as safe and injury free as possible - hence adding the caveats about the squats and straight leg sit ups.

I also don't like the "crossfit" version of kettlebell swings for the same reason (always felt better to me to just swing it up to 45 degrees/ horizontal or 45 degrees past horizontal at most) but that's just me - lots of people get on fine doing it that way.


Doing a second edition at the moment so maybe I could add the strongfort variation into the additional exercises section or mention this variation in the shoulder section with the above caveat.
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Re: Eccentric exercise, breathing, body contraction, grip

Postby D_Glenn on Sat Feb 22, 2014 8:50 pm

Resistance training increases PA "within" skeletal muscle or within the intracellular environment. This occurs via activating an enzyme (phospholipase D) which lies within components of muscle that are sensitive to eccentric contractions. These components are called zlines and hold the contractile elements of a muscle fiber together. When stretched phospholipase D, which is bound to the zlines, senses mechanical trauma and reacts by producing phosphatidic acid or PA. PA then binds to and activates mTOR, the master switch regulating protein synthesis. ~ http://www.t-nation.com/supplements/mic ... ypertrophy



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Re: Eccentric exercise, breathing, body contraction, grip

Postby Patrick on Sun Feb 23, 2014 11:38 am

Zlines??? They are called z-lines.
Never heard of that enzym though.
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Re: Eccentric exercise, breathing, body contraction, grip

Postby BonesCom on Sun Feb 23, 2014 7:47 pm

D_Glenn wrote:
Resistance training increases PA (phosphatidic acid) "within" skeletal muscle or within the intracellular environment. This occurs via activating an enzyme (phospholipase D) which lies within components of muscle that are sensitive to eccentric contractions. These components are called zlines and hold the contractile elements of a muscle fiber together. When stretched phospholipase D, which is bound to the zlines, senses mechanical trauma and reacts by producing phosphatidic acid or PA. PA then binds to and activates mTOR, the master switch regulating protein synthesis. ~ http://www.t-nation.com/supplements/mic ... ypertrophy



.


Have a look at these Patrick:

The Role of Diacylglycerol Kinase ζ and Phosphatidic Acid in the Mechanical Activation of Mammalian Target of Rapamycin (mTOR) Signaling and Skeletal Muscle Hypertrophy.
http://www.jbc.org/content/289/3/1551.long
The activation of mTOR signaling is essential for mechanically induced changes in skeletal muscle mass, and previous studies have suggested that mechanical stimuli activate mTOR (mammalian target of rapamycin) signaling through a phospholipase D (PLD)-dependent increase in the concentration of phosphatidic acid (PA). Consistent with this conclusion, we obtained evidence which further suggests that mechanical stimuli utilize PA as a direct upstream activator of mTOR signaling. Unexpectedly though, we found that the activation of PLD is not necessary for the mechanically induced increases in PA or mTOR signaling. Motivated by this observation, we performed experiments that were aimed at identifying the enzyme(s) that promotes the increase in PA. These experiments revealed that mechanical stimulation increases the concentration of diacylglycerol (DAG) and the activity of DAG kinases (DGKs) in membranous structures. Furthermore, using knock-out mice, we determined that the ζ isoform of DGK (DGKζ) is necessary for the mechanically induced increase in PA. We also determined that DGKζ significantly contributes to the mechanical activation of mTOR signaling, and this is likely driven by an enhanced binding of PA to mTOR. Last, we found that the overexpression of DGKζ is sufficient to induce muscle fiber hypertrophy through an mTOR-dependent mechanism, and this event requires DGKζ kinase activity (i.e. the synthesis of PA). Combined, these results indicate that DGKζ, but not PLD, plays an important role in mechanically induced increases in PA and mTOR signaling. Furthermore, this study suggests that DGKζ could be a fundamental component of the mechanism(s) through which mechanical stimuli regulate skeletal muscle mass.


Phospholipase D regulates the size of skeletal muscle cells through the activation of mTOR signaling.
http://www.biosignaling.com/content/11/1/55
mTOR is a major actor of skeletal muscle mass regulation in situations of atrophy or hypertrophy. It is established that Phospholipase D (PLD) activates mTOR signaling, through the binding of its product phosphatidic acid (PA) to mTOR protein. An influence of PLD on muscle cell size could thus be suspected. We explored the consequences of altered expression and activity of PLD isoforms in differentiated L6 myotubes. Inhibition or down-regulation of the PLD1 isoform markedly decreased myotube size and muscle specific protein content. Conversely, PLD1 overexpression induced muscle cell hypertrophy, both in vitro in myotubes and in vivo in mouse gastrocnemius. In the presence of atrophy-promoting dexamethasone, PLD1 overexpression or addition of exogenous PA protected myotubes against atrophy. Similarly, exogenous PA protected myotubes against TNFα-induced atrophy. Moreover, the modulation of PLD expression or activity in myotubes showed that PLD1 negatively regulates the expression of factors involved in muscle protein degradation, such as the E3-ubiquitin ligases Murf1 and Atrogin-1, and the Foxo3 transcription factor. Inhibition of mTOR by PP242 abolished the positive effects of PLD1 on myotubes, whereas modulating PLD influenced the phosphorylation of both S6K1 and Akt, which are respectively substrates of mTORC1 and mTORC2 complexes. These observations suggest that PLD1 acts through the activation of both mTORC1 and mTORC2 to induce positive trophic effects on muscle cells. This pathway may offer interesting therapeutic potentialities in the treatment of muscle wasting.
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Re: Eccentric exercise, breathing, body contraction, grip

Postby everything on Mon Aug 14, 2017 10:01 pm

bumping this super old thread because I started using tsurugi's kindle book today and felt it was just what I was looking for. Dealing with 3 injuries and so bored of not exercising. I suddenly recalled his book (that I purchased 3 years ago) and thought "what the heck, I can still handle super light weights". Went through the entire routine, plus single leg RDL, and a rehab exercise, and it feels great. I can feel the "pump" and some muscles getting a bit educated/my nervous system getting more aware of them. Though I like theory, I don't want maximum hypertrophy and in practice there is no way in hell I can lift heavy. This is:

1. cure for some boredom since I can't do the primary exercises I want to do right now
2. cosmetic/vanity desire to look better at the pool, whatever.
3. exercise I can actually do while rehabbing a few injuries
4. intellectually and body/mind connection interesting

Hopefully I'll post back in a few months if I stick to it and get some results.
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Re: Eccentric exercise, breathing, body contraction, grip

Postby Patrick on Tue Aug 15, 2017 12:54 am

keep Up with It. I lost 10 kg after i Gained a Bit after a longer illness.
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Re: Eccentric exercise, breathing, body contraction, grip

Postby everything on Tue Aug 15, 2017 7:31 am

Thanks man. Hope you are well again, now.

I feel pretty good because I can accommodate / maybe even help my main issue (shoulder: rehabbing it properly finally under awesome PT guidance). Just being able to do resistance work w/o pain is amazing. Haven't checked my weight, bodyfat, etc., but I should probably do some before/after logging (not really the priority, but it could be interesting).
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Re: Eccentric exercise, breathing, body contraction, grip

Postby Patrick on Tue Aug 15, 2017 7:46 am

Thanks, yeah I am good again for a while now (*knocking on wood*). I wish you the best with the protocol and rehabing your issues.

And by the way, on my blog you can find an interview with Dave on the dumbbell protocol.
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