Gleason Internal Power

[allen2saint]

Well, at least that relational dynamic was concretely and thoroughly explained.

[WVMark]

particularly with Aikido, because it clearly was Ueshiba's intention to make practice accessible to all people. He said as much. If that was not so, my friend would still be using or dead.But accessible does not mean we can define it how we please.

This is a popular misconception. The founder, Morihei Ueshiba, did not want his aikido available to all people. It was his son, Kisshomaru Ueshiba, who opened aikido up to the world. To study aikido with the founder, you had to have at least two references from known, good people. Kisshomaru took over Tokyo after the war and then decided to change his father's aikido to suit a world wide audience. Kisshomaru removed all the spiritual talk of shinto gods and kami. Then, Kisshomaru wanted to do the very first *public* demonstration of aikido and needed his father's approval. Kisshomaru was frightened to ask his father because he thought his father would fly into a rage at the very thought of a public demonstration. Surprisingly, Morihei let his son do what he wanted with the Tokyo branch of aikido. Almost all of aikido (not counting Yoshinkan, Shodokan, etc from the prewar students) in the world today can be traced back to Kisshomaru's changes and Kisshomaru's vision and NOT from Morihei Ueshiba.

[allen2saint]

Two responses to this...

1) I don't doubt you out of hand. I have no idea where you're getting this, but it does sound legit. So, thank you.
2) However, at this point, we are all clearly several generations into Kisshomaru's Aikido and this profileration of different ways of practice has been tolerated, even by hard asses like Chiba. So, I think having an open mind is what has been sought for generations. It's what we've got and it works.

[Zonker]

Q. Your walking down the street and someone attacks you. Who is the most important person ? You or them ? .

That question just made my tea come out my nose!

Clean Nose Zonker the Honker - any answers though..?

I am most important person, until the safety of myself and/or my family is secured, then I'll consider the attacker. I do not particularly prescribe to the Aikido thought that I am responsible for my attacker's well being, either physically or karmically, or return him to harmony with the universe.

[Zonker]

And about street violence...having worked a year in my city's toughest prison, underestimating anyone whose livelihood comes from the practice of violence is absolutely foolish. They keep going because they succeeded a bunch of times. If they were idiots, they never would have made it off their block.

I absolutely hate having to make visits to Rikers Island, too. I agree, most people do not have to deal with violent career criminals. It is an eye-opening experience to have to deal with such individuals on a daily basis. Such experience really gave me a new definition and understanding of "zanshin"!

[Zonker]

All these posts over the last two days have been really informative and interesting to read. Trying to get back to the the initial thread, is it possible at this point to get back to what O-sensei was doing pre-war? I really liked Ellis Amdur's conclusions in "Hidden in Plain Sight" wherein he stated that we can train in IP/IMA with individuals such as Mr. Harden, Mr. Akuzawa or Mr. Sigman and transfer what we learn there to our aikido practice, but what we eventually end up with won't be O-sensei's aikido, it'll be our own. Any thoughts?

[emptycloud]

All these posts over the last two days have been really informative and interesting to read. Trying to get back to the the initial thread, is it possible at this point to get back to what O-sensei was doing pre-war? I really liked Ellis Amdur's conclusions in "Hidden in Plain Sight" wherein he stated that we can train in IP/IMA with individuals such as Mr. Harden, Mr. Akuzawa or Mr. Sigman and transfer what we learn there to our aikido practice, but what we eventually end up with won't be O-sensei's aikido, it'll be our own. Any thoughts?

I feel that aikido or any art means different things to different people at different times of their lives. I feel that if you want to stick at the art for a lifetime then you have to make it your own in response to changes to ones shifting perceptions of self and world. After sometime I feel the form of the art is irrelevant, especially in aikido where one is I feel simply enhancing and making sublime, natural movement already embodied before any aikido was even considered as a study. This I feel is where the art differs from other arts. In tai chi you are perhaps making learnt movements natural, in aikido you are making natural movements only... So in a sense you own the art the very moment you decide the art is the one for you..

Rich aka empty cup of coffee

[middleway]

I feel that aikido or any art means different things to different people at different times of their lives. I feel that if you want to stick at the art for a lifetime then you have to make it your own in response to changes to ones shifting perceptions of self and world. After sometime I feel the form of the art is irrelevant, especially in aikido where one is I feel simply enhancing and making sublime, natural movement already embodied before any aikido was even considered as a study. This I feel is where the art differs from other arts. In tai chi you are perhaps making learnt movements natural, in aikido you are making natural movements only... So in a sense you own the art the very moment you decide the art is the one for you..

Well said.

No martial art exists outside of the individual. Sure training methods etc can be written or recorded but it will always be a personal expression and will only ever become useful when practiced in an individual way, by the individual. No one on this earth will have Ueshibas Aikido bar Ueshiba.

I have heard ... 'thats ####'s stuff' etc a few times. Sure the training method may be from a certain tradition or style. But no one has a right to tell you what to do or not to do with your body.

I have always thought we should embrace the personal aspect of Martial arts without worrying if its this persons or that persons ... It is your own and can never be anyone elses!

cheers
Chris

[Patrick]

"To me, ultimately, martial arts means honestly expressing yourself."

I still adhere to this.

[allen2saint]

What I love about going to a serious academic institution for grad school is you learn how to think critically and operate in a venue where proof matters. No one can walk into a room and declare something without being challenged for data and proofs. Good professors go to great, great lengths to prove their assertions, based on past works and by making clear, critically verifiable connections to other well established facts, which are systematically cited.

I wish the martial arts had this same standard.

[emptycloud]

What I love about going to a serious academic institution for grad school is you learn how to think critically and operate in a venue where proof matters. No one can walk into a room and declare something without being challenged for data and proofs. Good professors go to great, great lengths to prove their assertions, based on past works and by making clear, critically verifiable connections to other well established facts, which are systematically cited.

I wish the martial arts had this same standard.

Greetings Allen.. the cautionary tale that springs to mind is the professor of philosophy who goes to visits the tea master... gets his chinos all wet with earl grey (no sugar or milk, dash of gin)

Rich aka empty cup..

[allen2saint]

Yeah, I heard those kinds of things too. All from people who had never been to grad school. I learned how to work hard and actually think here and I am surrounded by the smartest, most capable people I have ever met. Not many people can live up to that standard of accountability, that's for sure. It would wreck the MA world.

[emptycloud]

Dear Allen

If one considers you can get a very honourable understanding of say, .. Zen... You could write all kinds of erudite books.. Even become an expert of renown in the subject..dates, people, places, all kinds of profound knowledge about comparative sects and practices...etc.. or you could simply sit down and shut up. You could do both, of course.

the cup over floweth..

Rich aka empty zafu

[allen2saint]

Lol...says the guy who just abstracted Aikido to the most espoteric and erudite deconstructions I have ever heard? Says the guy who a few posts ago was going on and on about his own little self indulgent diatribe on how it all was Aikido somehow?

So, what you're really trying to say is, it's all Aikido as long as it fits into your experience and your opinions, right? If its someone else's then it's simply not "real" to you.

My professors have done more real work and know their work better than you will ever dream of. What do you think academic work is? Living and breathing with your subject day by day.

Truly, you are so transparent.

[emptycloud]

Lol...says the guy who just abstracted Aikido to the most espoteric and erudite deconstructions I have ever heard? Says the guy who a few posts ago was going on and on about his own little self indulgent diatribe on how it all was Aikido somehow? So, what you're really trying to say is, it's all Aikido as long as it fits into your experience and your opinions, right? If its someone else's then it's simply not "real" to you.

My professors have done more real work and know their work better than you will ever dream of. What do you think academic work is? Living and breathing with your subject day by day. Please go back to your cup and your relational dynamics.

hey Allen,

I am only made up of experience and opinion of that experience. This apparent " I " is manifest through relational dynamics of stuff I experience as apparently not I

Aikido (I feel) allows us to access an experience where the sense of I resists not the stuff it would normally consider not " I ". Its interesting stuff for some.

enjoy your studies - stay cool

Rich aka empty