CXW on Tai Chi basics

[GrahamB]

http://vimeo.com/42531802

[allen2saint]

I know people criticize him, but I'd be very happy to move like that at his age.

[yeniseri]

Thanks GrahamB,
True skill is deep! The Building of Chen institutions compared to other CMA is a salute to achievement and 'skill'.
ganbei!

[NoSword]

Does anyone have the link to the original version on Youtube or Youku?

AK

[ilove_thistuff]

Why would they criticize him...CXW trained like crazy and its paid of for him into his old age.

[Bao]

Why would they criticize him...CXW trained like crazy and its paid of for him into his old age.

You just gave a reason yourself .... Jelousity...

[GrahamB]

Is "Jelousity" something to do with wobbling?

[Bao]

Maybe it has something to do with Swenglish?

[shawnsegler]

I hate films like this. "Umm...master "insert name here" how does some aspect of your system work? It is like "insert metaphor here" Interviewer: "Ah so!"

It doesn't engorge my mind boner. Sorry.

S

[XiaoXiong]

CXW gets criticized because he doesn't know how to fight. He just does his things he's comfortable with. I heard he was getting a high and mighty attitude about his internal skill in front of Su Dongchen, who then challenged him. He apparently declined, to say the least.
Jess

[allen2saint]

I saw him push in that video with the XY guy who lost his temper a bit and he looked fine to me.

As I get older I am less concerned with the undercurrent of criticism that is omnipresent in the arts, especially having compared it my experience in grad school. My professors who were world renowned experts in their fields showed respect to their colleagues who disagreed with them and very rarely if ever were really dismissive of another teacher's ideas. They are willing to say what a person is good at or to smile about an argument or difference.

I'm not saying people aren't wrong in the arts. I just think there is a lot of this fault finding and looking down on others. Guess it comes with the territory.

[XiaoXiong]

It comes with being a martial artist who doesn't fight.
Jess

[Andy_S]

He is very, very good at what he does. What he does is not fighting. Take it or leave it. He is hardly alone in this approach in CMA, and, indeed, in wider TMA.

But there is this. One instructor I know - master-leve wing chun, and a former Hong Kong cop - said when he spent a lot of money and discipled to Chen, he got a lot of hands-on time and was fully convinced of his power and skill. There again, that was a master-student situation and I don't think they really got down to it.

Regarding the infamous "push hands" clip in Taiwan:
I think that clip sums up Chen.
It was not clear from the start what was going to happen. The "challenger" decided not to play Chen's game, and actually went at him from out of contact - albeit in a half-hearted manner. (This was nothing like as serious a challenge of Emin Botzepe going after William Cheung.) When the guy landed a (mild) hit, he actually bounced off Chen's chest: Chen is a very solid chap by build, has trained like hell and has accumulated gongfu.

OTOH, it was very obvious that Chen had little or no idea of how to bridge, stick, lead, follow, neutralize or close down a guy who was moving and who was not in limb contact - ie how to apply PH attributes in a more combative situation than PH training. He is, I think, a good example of a man with traditional MA training but no real experience of how that training is applied to combat. Su Dong-chen, referenced above, is a different kettle of fish: He has the gongfu and the fighting experience.

Personally I think you are better off training with the younger generation of Chenjiagou peeps. They have got a lot of experience in competitive standing grappling, and some in competitive sanda. That is a lot more than their fathers' generation had. I think it is fair to characterize their training as "martial arts without fighting."

[windwalker]

He is very, very good at what he does. What he does is not fighting. Take it or leave it. He is hardly alone in this approach in CMA, and, indeed, in wider TMA.

But there is this. One instructor I know - master-leve wing chun, and a former Hong Kong cop - said when he spent a lot of money and discipled to Chen, he got a lot of hands-on time and was fully convinced of his power and skill. There again, that was a master-student situation and I don't think they really got down to it.

Regarding the infamous "push hands" clip in Taiwan:
I think that clip sums up Chen.
It was not clear from the start what was going to happen. The "challenger" decided not to play Chen's game, and actually went at him from out of contact - albeit in a half-hearted manner. (This was nothing like as serious a challenge of Emin Botzepe going after William Cheung.) When the guy landed a (mild) hit, he actually bounced off Chen's chest: Chen is a very solid chap by build, has trained like hell and has accumulated gongfu.

OTOH, it was very obvious that Chen had little or no idea of how to bridge, stick, lead, follow, neutralize or close down a guy who was moving and who was not in limb contact - ie how to apply PH attributes in a more combative situation than PH training. He is, I think, a good example of a man with traditional MA training but no real experience of how that training is applied to combat. Su Dong-chen, referenced above, is a different kettle of fish: He has the gongfu and the fighting experience.

Personally I think you are better off training with the younger generation of Chenjiagou peeps. They have got a lot of experience in competitive standing grappling, and some in competitive sanda. That is a lot more than their fathers' generation had. I think it is fair to characterize their training as "martial arts without fighting."

I think it should also be mentioned that it was in a demo type of environment, I am sure that had it been otherwise the outcome would have been much different.As far as the guy not playing CXW's "game" it was pretty clear that CXW was sticking pretty much to the format, he a was just in a bad position. I thought he showed class.

what the older teachers try to instill IME is the skill sets that what ever "x" style is or was noted for. In this sense it's not about fighting per say but something that can be applied to it. Just as in some of the other threads where people talk of gaining a skill, and then understanding how the skill can be used,,,its a different process
for most they really dont have the skill in the first place, but may know how to fight, which tends to misslead them into thinking that their useing "IP" "internal" what in what they do.....for most, its not, but they can fight.

Su Dong-chen, referenced above, is a different kettle of fish: He has the gongfu and the fighting experience.

but he is not teaching Chen style taiji, when you mention fighting experience, is this or was this in a "ring event" against others of equal level and skill?

Note: not a chen guy

[XiaoXiong]

Su fought in the tournaments, and the brawls. He was brought up because CXW was acting all high and mighty about his skills talking down at Su, and when Su challenged him, he was singing a different tune. If you want to learn to fend off a line of guys trying to make you move your feet CXW is your guy, but for fighting not so much.
Jess