light strike, painful effect

[lazyboxer]

I'm always impressed by Systema shocking strikes - as well as those cheerful and long-suffering Russian punchbags!

[middleway]

One of the most interesting strikes i ever took was from Vladimir Vasiliev ... was a very light tough with a smile that was like being struck by lightening. I guess this is how it looked lol

These guys have bonkers relaxed striking.

[dspyrido]

I have felt amazing short power & it did not look like this. Hit my arm and I doubt I will wince like a little school girl so I am struggling to keep being objective.

Wish I could find someone who would do this on me. Being shown that it works would be wonderful. Being shown that it is yet more bullshit would be sad but at the very least clarifying.

[Steve Rowe]

Joint alignment, no excessive tension, core usage, use of bodyweight, correct targetting and correct penetration - normal punching science, when he imitated others he pulled his punches and when he hit with his strikes he didn't. The receivers weren't in fight mode and after being hit a couple of times became far more susceptible. It's a bit like standing still for the school bully. Not taking anything away from his skill but there was a lot of theatre there.

[RobP2]

As a general observation, not on this clip in particular -
no-one believes much of anything until they feel it - or don't lol
the methods I have experienced are very different from CIMA, so will look different
and what Chris said (the voice of experience)

[lazyboxer]

Part of the effect is due to his accuracy and targeting skill. He's hitting exactly the right points with drilling, penetrating and rolling/raking power - three forces in one. That's pretty devastating.

Steve's right, though, in that the punchbag isn't moving most of the time, making it easy to get clean shots. The big bloke's a Sambo champ who doesn't seem to know how to flow with a systema strike to lessen the impact, so he's getting juiced. It looks real enough to me, though.

I took a look at Gaievskiy's website. He has an interesting background. He was a boxer and fighter from childhood who took up karate and turned into a serious pug, training bodyguards, special forces and God knows who else. After the post-90s political thaw he connected with Kadochnikov, Ryabko, Vasiliev and others with whom he exchanged and learned, but has developed his own unique approach.

[RobP2]

These demo's only seem to exist in CMA and now systema. What purpose do they serve apart from "wow look at how powerful I am, I can damage you without even trying"
Having a dummy stand there while you hit them proves nothing. You might have a hard hit when the opponent is static and not resisting, however it's a different thing when you are moving or if someone is fighting back.
Sooner we move away from these stupid demo's the better.
Can you see a boxing or mma coaching doing this? Of course not because the context is unrealistic.

Depends if you regard the person as a dummy or not. There is a lot to be gained from giving and taking strikes, but I know it is not the most popular type of training for people not used to it. Of course the work can be done badly and abused, I'm not commenting on that clip in particular, Ive not really watched all of it. But the best type of work in this area is actually for the benefit of the person being hit - they learn the basics of impact managements, they learn something about fear control, something about breathing and also it helps get rid of unhelpful tension. Of course the striker is also learning how to hit a person rather than air or a bag. That's generally the Systema approach, rather than just hitting a dummy and saying "look how good I am"

I'm taking a wild guess that the Systema guys who do this type of training might know it's not the same is hitting someone in a fight. Context is key.That's why all the other drills exist too. They are not demonstrations they are training. From the same work moving, into other drills, free play and fighting. It's work that you build on, but there has to be a starting point to develop basic principles. Like I said before, talking from experience may be a more useful commentary, like with any type of training I guess. I mean I could probably kill a UFC guy with a deadly tiger claw...until I got into the ring with him, right?

[Bao]

Having a dummy stand there while you hit them proves nothing.

Then no demo surves any purpose, nothing proves anything if you don't show a real fight. Or is that so? But maybe you think that this is a good way to demonstrate punching skill?

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=-2oYfdfx_2s

[allen2saint]

I'm always impressed by Systema shocking strikes - as well as those cheerful and long-suffering Russian punchbags!

Funny you should mention that. I always thought the Systema people made the hurt look fun as well.

I give respect here. I've been to private classes with a lot of physical demonstration of strikes, etc and much younger guys than these ended up chickening out. They aren't kids and they are taking it hard.

[Doc Stier]

I'm always impressed by Systema shocking strikes - as well as those cheerful and long-suffering Russian punchbags!

Funny you should mention that. I always thought the Systema people made the hurt look fun as well.

I give respect here. I've been to private classes with a lot of physical demonstration of strikes, etc and much younger guys than these ended up chickening out. They aren't kids and they are taking it hard.

I agree with both of you. I don't really see the value to the students, however, in standing still to receive repeated hard punches or strikes. One or two blows with any significant power should be sufficient to demonstrate the effectiveness of any technique. More than that seems a bit masochistic for all parties, imo.

[RobP2]

I'm always impressed by Systema shocking strikes - as well as those cheerful and long-suffering Russian punchbags!

Funny you should mention that. I always thought the Systema people made the hurt look fun as well.

I give respect here. I've been to private classes with a lot of physical demonstration of strikes, etc and much younger guys than these ended up chickening out. They aren't kids and they are taking it hard.

I agree with both of you. I don't really see the value to the students, however, in standing still to receive repeated hard punches or strikes. One or two blows with any significant power should be sufficient to demonstrate the effectiveness of any technique. More than that seems a bit masochistic for all parties, imo.

I thought CMA guys were all for eating bitter Like I said before, the OP's clip aside, the point isn't the "effectiveness of the technique", though the hitter learns something about how to place strikes. The main benefit is for the person being hit. Alongside forms of massage and movement it is a quick and powerful method for removing often deep-seated fears and tensions. The training ethos in general is quite different from what has become the "conventional" model, it is more about the student than the teacher

[Bao]

. The main benefit is for the person being hit. Alongside forms of massage and movement it is a quick and powerful method for removing often deep-seated fears and tensions. The training ethos in general is quite different from what has become the "conventional" model, it is more about the student than the teacher.

It's good to feel the quality of different striking methods for sure, but I'm a bit sceptical about it's health benefits. Then why don't you apply it as a therapeutic device and hit your partner all over the body? Why just the shoulder area if it's such a powerful method "for removing often deep-seated fears and tension"?

Instead for being very healthy, I have read very much the opposite, about people getting chronical nerve damage and everlasting pain in the shoulders by recieving frequent, hard punches in the shoulders.

[NoSword]

Great stuff as usual Rob, I particularly like the part about fitting lots of layered training into one or a handful of drills.

My recent experiences working striking with my Systema teacher contrast sharply with my recent experiences in high-context/intense sparring. Inadvertently taking some hard strikes from a sparring partner while defending oneself is one thing. Taking medium-force, but well-targeted, blows from a partner without tensing up or defending oneself, repeatedly, and continuing to breathe and do so once one's threat perception has kicked in, is another. It gets much closer to the point psychologically.

AK

[RobP2]

. The main benefit is for the person being hit. Alongside forms of massage and movement it is a quick and powerful method for removing often deep-seated fears and tensions. The training ethos in general is quite different from what has become the "conventional" model, it is more about the student than the teacher.

It's good to feel the quality of different striking methods for sure, but I'm a bit sceptical about it's health benefits. Then why don't you apply it as a therapeutic device and hit your partner all over the body? Why just the shoulder area if it's such a powerful method "for removing often deep-seated fears and tension"?

Instead for being very healthy, I have read very much the opposite, about people getting chronical nerve damage and everlasting pain in the shoulders by recieving frequent, hard punches in the shoulders.

We do hit all over the body and use various types of massage too, there are plenty of video clips around of that kind of work. None of my guys have suffered damage or pain as a result of this work, quite the reverse. I guess like anything it has to be done properly, it isn't about just hitting someone hard for the sake of it. You need to be specific about the areas you work on depending on what you are trying to achieve. Of course in training no-one will hit full blast into a "dangerous" spot - but one thing this method teaches you in terms of fighting is targeting tension in an attacker and using that to your advantage