dedicated to the discussion of the chinese internal martial arts of xingyiquan, baguazhang, taijiquan, related arts, and anything else best discussed over a bottle of rum
Steve Rowe wrote:Sport guys really shouldn't teach street. I was shouting "just fucking gob him!" If you have to raise your hands, knock him out whilst he's still coming forward, timing and that window of opportunity is vital. This is awful. If for any reason you're not going to knock him out (unlikely) don't get involved in a push/pull game, turn him and then hit him or break something, even better use your weapon.
Might not be much of a solution for a weaker person facing a stronger? E.h. Woman vs man
RobP2 wrote:I dunno, watching the first clip I kept shouting "move your shoulders, move your feet!" lol
Care to expand Rob?
Basically to get out of that first position with the guy coming in a pushing, roll your shoulders slightly to disrupt his form and move your feet off line. In the rear choke position the first movement he did was kind of ok, but would be more effective if he rotated his shoulder to create space. Throwing someone as suggested is not a good move for me, it puts them even more on your back.
Examples here
That's all good stuff but I don't see how it negates the original clip
Forget about weight and toes and commitment... "Invisible JJ" is all about use of intent to drive your movement, from what little I could tell from that clip. Very different from Tai Chi I've learned in terms of structural integrity, but nearly identical in terms of the basics of applying yi to your movement. FWIW
Interloper wrote:This is a compromised, unstable position
Of all the people you could criticize of having "compromised, unstable" balance, you choose Rickson? That's incredible
I appreciate you're talking about a completely different set of skills.
However...
Rickson has proved himself against many fighters in international competition.
Who is the man who used internal skills, proved himself in a similar way, and produced superior results (i.e. not "compromised and unstable")? A name, please!
There is no commitment of your own center of mass and stability that the opponent can exploit.
The implication of this is, if, for example, a sumo wrestler learned internal skills, he'd clean up in competition?
May I ask, how would you maintain a plumb-vertical, un-exploitable position against a committed forward drive? Or someone trying to pick one or both of your legs?
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Steve,
The Gracies are fairly familiar with street fights.
Last edited by Ian on Sun Jul 27, 2014 9:19 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Thats great legally, but that hands forward push defense move would get you eaten alive by a guy or girl with a half way decent hook, let alone a decent 1-2 combo and a tiny bit of footwork know how. Let alone if the guy is bigger and tries to football tackle you as often happens when guys are bigger than you. All other considerations go out the window when your laid out on the floor.
I'm with Steve on that.
If you're going for basic defense and legal safety too, I would suggest teaching someone sidestepping drills while teaching them to keep their hands up as a better option. Oh yea and a good sprawl.
Last edited by Dajenarit on Sun Jul 27, 2014 9:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Gotta love sumo. They're masters of dynamic balance. Thats why imo Machida has the best takedown defense in MMA. You can see the sumo influence. Its so perty ta watch too.
Dmitri wrote:Forget about weight and toes and commitment... "Invisible JJ" is all about use of intent to drive your movement, from what little I could tell from that clip. Very different from Tai Chi I've learned in terms of structural integrity, but nearly identical in terms of the basics of applying yi to your movement. FWIW
No, it isn't. Watch the next clip on his upa escap. It's about little tricks that make the positions work better. Change of angles, little body movements, etc...
Last edited by GrahamB on Sun Jul 27, 2014 10:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Ian wrote:Rickson has proved himself against many fighters in international competition.
Who is the man who used internal skills, proved himself in a similar way, and produced superior results (i.e. not "compromised and unstable")? A name, please!
I'm well aware of what the Gracie's have done, but that advice for the street was terrible. The moment you try to meet anyone head on you can be in serious trouble. The moment you try to grapple the chances are that his mate will 'snipe' you from the side or back (often with a weapon), the best option is to use his forward momentum and hit him in that one window of opportunity in a vital point, concealing the strike for as long as you can, raising your hands before you have to is giving too much away. If you have to grapple, strike as you go straight for a standing choke or strangle turning him at the same time to use him as a shield against anyone from the side or rear and gouge at the same time to make him scream and put a bit of fear into the others. In the street never go 1 to 1 if possible, he probably won't, always assume he's armed, if he's bigger, disable as fast and violently as you can, put fear into anyone else around.
If you see someone without a smile - give 'em one of yours...
GrahamB wrote:I dunno, watching the first clip I kept shouting "move your shoulders, move your feet!" lol
Care to expand Rob?[/quote]
That's all good stuff but I don't see how it negates the original clip [/quote]
Because as a general principle we teach use of footwork as a primary defence,whereas in the OP he seems to advise not moving the feet and putting weight forward into the attack
And what you can't possibly appreciate is that it's just a drill done for the benefit of the student, you should not judge the teacher on it. He is just helping him lose his tension. Most people miss this...
Last edited by GrahamB on Mon Jul 28, 2014 3:46 am, edited 2 times in total.
