Ren Zhongxin free sparring

[Steve Rowe]

So when the old guy is good enough to go on video and play like a grandpa playing with a kid, he's damned for not doing it and that and he's damned if he don't. It's an old boy having a bit of fun with a student - that's it. I can't believe you even take it seriously. Would I go toe to toe with one of my Club Sanda guys.... absolutely not, but we each have respect for what the other is and I'll contribute to his development if it helps.

[Wanderingdragon]

I'm not Damning him, I'm just looking for signs of what could very well be past, but should still viable fighting skills.

[AllanF]

At no point does Ren Zhongxin make any attempt to attack...does that mean he can't attack? He only neutralizes nothing more...

On that note more duffness from him...guess i'm the only one who is light years behind him...

[Wanderingdragon]

At no point does Ren Zhongxin make any attempt to attack...does that mean he can't attack? He only neutralizes nothing more...

On that note more duffness from him...guess i'm the only one who is light years behind him...

Yes, it is absolutely imperative that a certain degree of bad assert is displayed.

[dspyrido]

When kids attack me I tend to just stand there and play. Observers might then say to me ... "use your feet", "his head is open", "if he was hitting harder he might connect", "look that cheap shot got through - your defeneses are crap", "ah see your hands just don't seem to be doing anything and he is constantly hitting you"

But is it really fair or conducive to their learning to just dismiss their attack, walk in, lift them on my shoulder and slam them head first on the ground? Should I just dodge a punch and kick them in then in their well exposed groin? Or just walk up and hit them before they blink and finish it? Although a lot of good sadistic fun probably not a good lesson.

Not saying I know anything about Ren but something in the original video does not feel like he is really concerned or trying to collect the kids head.

[AllanF]

Yes, it is absolutely imperative that a certain degree of bad assert is displayed.

Well just to clarify, i was being sarcastic!
It terms of internal skills this is very good, if others can't see what he is doing or can't see any value in this that is up to them.

Perhaps we should only post stuff like this and be done with it...?

Enjoy!

[Ian]

Well, what would Ren laoshi's skills look like, if applied to the same format as shown in your mma clip?

[AllanF]

Well personal i'd say that it is am impossible question to answer.

You need to compare apples with apples, so an opponent that is of compatible physical conditioning (aerobic fitness etc), give both opponents the same amount of build up and prefight training time etc. Or better yet 2 Ren zhongxins, one who has trained only MMA and one that has done the above. But does that mean the skills/connection he has developed in his body can not or is not cross cutting in its ability to be applied? I would say the body method is cross cutting.

You tell me...

[Wanderingdragon]

In the second Ren Zhongxin clip, Ren shows skills the that would surely be functional in the octagon, I have always said more times than once, those skills embodied in a fighter in his prime , trained to fight would dominate in the octagon . The key though is in "trained to fight ". When these arts were created that's what they were , made for fighting , and their proponents did all the work, not just neija , but body work, stone locks and more, and cardio/breath work, bag work , poles trees sandbags, and they fought ! Compared to the fighters that were involved in the development of these arts , IMO , todays MMA guys stand hardly a chance. The greatest necessity though , HEART!

[AllanF]

The key though is in "trained to fight ". When these arts were created that's what they were , made for fighting , and their proponents did all the work, not just neija , but body work, stone locks and more, and cardio/breath work, bag work , poles trees sandbags, and they fought !

+1

[Ian]

We don't have to go back in time and clone Ren laoshi.

How about any taichi master in his prime vs. an uke who actually knows how to strike and grapple, who isn't trying to give his master "face", and isn't complicit in "proving" that taichi works?

You know, that activity which men of other martial arts don't mind participating in. Think your style works? Prove it!



We all have our favorite skill sets, but it'd be helpful to demonstrate how those skill sets can be implemented in ways that are realistic and not completely contrived.
(This only applies if we're still talking about fighting, and not about something else).

Here are examples of good skill sets in controlled settings. Notice that there are no stooges:

[Ian]

Again, so many preconditions for success.

You don't see sport fighters talking quite so much, or giving so many excuses.

[Dajenarit]

But is it really fair or conducive to their learning to just dismiss their attack, walk in, lift them on my shoulder and slam them head first on the ground? Should I just dodge a punch and kick them in then in their well exposed groin? Or just walk up and hit them before they blink and finish it? Although a lot of good sadistic fun probably not a good lesson.
.

It actually is to a certain degree. Not all the time and not with strict beginners but you know...

[AllanF]

Again, so many preconditions for success.

You don't see sport fighters talking quite so much, or giving so many excuses.

Well first up i never said that Ren Zhongxin (RZX) would take everyone in the UFC! I posted the original clip as i thought...stupidly...that people on an IMA forum would be interesting in...IMA and the skills set it can develop. It was silly of me! Hence the UFC knockout clip! (which i loved)

As you will be aware from sport fighting most fighters are fairly evenly matched, and on a particular day either fighter can take the other. They are evenly matched because they train in a similar manner and for similar lengths of time. Therefore to answer your question

Well, what would Ren laoshi's skills look like, if applied to the same format as shown in your mma clip?

[emphasis added]

The only way you can ever find out is if you give them the same format i.e. organize a fight and the people train accordingly. Not excuses as you falsely suggest just a level playing field. And i think you would find that most sport fighters who are out of shape (and in their 70s as RZX is) would not be too confident going up against someone who trains professionally. For example how do you think you'd fair in the UFC? Since that was your measure of RZX and as a sport fighter i'm sure you'd not have any excuses!

[AllanF]

You know, that activity which men of other martial arts don't mind participating in. Think your style works? Prove it!

Ian it is clear that you don't think much of any IMA, so respectfully why are you on an IMA site? Of course you are free to be here and all that but it strikes me that you could be putting you energy into something far more positive.

In your judo clips, tell me what is the difference of say judo guys playing judo games (randori) with other judoka and say the likes of Chen Ziqiang doing the same in the taiji world (sanshou/sanda)?



Or this clip from Chen village...

http://youtu.be/19QB2goi49c

Seems to me that in your view, IMA is damned either way. If they don't then you will say it proves IMA is BS, if they do then you call the opponents "stooges".

I doubt there is anything anyone can do or say to adjust your perspective so with that i wish you all the best and i'll not bother sharing video clips anymore as it seem to go against the consensus on this board.